Dwylbtzle, speaking of Bill, wrote:musta taken yer share of abusive name calling, i'll wager
hope ed got a word in edwise and set em all straight
No, back then people had respect. But then the trolls arrived. And we debated how to handle them. Scott implemented the reputation system and required membership so that random guests could no longer post spam. Over the years we have tolerated a lot of weird members. And some few have been ejected for gross misbehavior.
It seems the religious freaks always cause the most problems. They have this idea that they are the righteous ones chosen to discover Bessler's wheel and all others are horrible sinners. Of course most members are believers that their wheel might work. Else why would we even try?
which religion?
the bessler religion or the anti-bessler religion
yea--but you see---God is so weak, i guess, His children just NEEED the bessler wheel, SO bad
so He only gives it to them, apparently
not them foul devil-spawn
i suppose that's the dogma behind it
(but one (or all) of em musta forgot He gave it to them, i guess)
I too tire of your expletive language. You are not a born again yuppie and San Fransisco North hill no longer exists in its 1960-70's era home of the "flower children" that thought nothing of sex and should have cross pollinated.
Please take you foul mouth and move to a forum that thinks your use of the English language is "hip hop" and appreciated.
I disdain and have nothing but haughty contempt for your uncalled for language.
It doesn't matter. Men create religion in response to mystery. Don't they?
Once the solution to Bessler's wheel is found it will cease to be a mystery. The real pay dirt for belief junkies has always been, and will always be, the pursuit of perpetual motion. Divergent subjects, IMO.
Last edited by ovyyus on Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
rlortie wrote: San Fransisco North hill no longer exists in its 1960-70's era home of the "flower children" that thought nothing of sex and should have cross pollinated.
totally agree
the "let's all be broadcast breeders like clams" thing always sickened me too
well
correct again
but this topic has been kinda beat
no?
i'm glad to continue but
i don't know what more to say about CF driven momentum
we're all kinda just chattin now
this happens to most threads
in the after party wind down
people taking a breath
i do agree with his first post
emphatically
no gravity alone wheel with widget flippers
i was asking about that, here
but i realize you were busy with the fletcher math stuff, at the time
and then all the other background noise that came in
Maxwell's demon was an 1867 thought experiment by the Scottish physicist James Clerk Maxwell, meant to raise questions about the possibility of violating the second law of thermodynamics and thereby providing a means of perpetual motion.
In 1867 James Clerk Maxwell wrote:But if we conceive of a being whose faculties are so sharpened that he can follow every molecule in its course, such a being, whose attributes are as essentially finite as our own, would be able to do what is impossible to us. For we have seen that molecules in a vessel full of air at uniform temperature are moving with velocities by no means uniform, though the mean velocity of any great number of them, arbitrarily selected, is almost exactly uniform. Now let us suppose that such a vessel is divided into two portions, A and B, by a division in which there is a small hole, and that a being, who can see the individual molecules, opens and closes this hole, so as to allow only the swifter molecules to pass from A to B, and only the slower molecules to pass from B to A. He will thus, without expenditure of work, raise the temperature of B and lower that of A, in contradiction to the second law of thermodynamics.
Described using simpler words:
An imaginary demon is placed in a doorway in a partition in the middle of a box where he allows warmer gas molecules to pass in one direction and cooler molecules to pass in the other direction. Soon one side is hot and the other side cold violating the second law of thermodynamics.
If a Maxwell's Demon could in reality sort faster moving warmer gas molecules from slower moving colder gas molecules then we would have the makings of a perpetual motion machine, for we could use this separation of temperature to run most any heat engine by allowing heat to flow spontaneously from the cooling side to the warming side and then use the temperature difference to run a suitable engine, such as a Sterling heat engine.
If equal motion of two weights can be sorted/transferred so as to cause increased motion of one weight and decreased motion of the other weight, then this would be like a Mechanical Maxwell's Demon. Two weights moving at the same speed as each other and same speed as the wheel have no harnessable energy within the wheel. All harnessable motion energy requires weights to move at different speeds.
If we cause the two weights to change velocities within the wheel, then we can use their velocity difference to do work. And suppose this causes the two weights to revert back to moving at the same speed again. We simply repeat the process.
At first glance, this would seem to not work if we assume conservation of energy. Obviously for a PM wheel to work, one needs to break conservation of energy.
ok i see that point
and it wouldn't even, technically, be a newton violating true PM machine (i'm taking about the heat transfer thing)
because it would be drawing energy from an outside force
but that "outside" would be from where that dancing interplay between molecules comes from
and you DO mention heat so THAT had to come from somewhere outside
and does
so that'd all be legit as far as it all goes
hey-guys
-he saw right away that the gravity alone flipper don't work
(so he's got THAT goin' ferim)
so then he went this way
sure, his idea is crazy--but he who's idea is without crazy throw the first stone
he gets grumpy sometimes
but at least he doesn't scream foul names when you ask one question
i want him to be right
but hey
anything that goes because it went is really hard for me
that's where i start:
no gravalone flippers AT ALL
and 'goes because it went'
i gotta see or reserve judgement
but.....MAYYYYYbe?
Last edited by Dwylbtzle on Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
what if, instead of one weight going slower again, they both end up coming to the SAME speed
and that's the end of that
because the system would have just naturally found it's equilibrium
they between themselves?
what i'm saying: is i envison, perchamps, that you have two weights traveling at different speeds--and when you tap that, to do heavy work
you draw down as much energy as it takes to bring them to the same speed--and that's all you get
what mechanism flings the faster one back to end up SLOWER
and without loosing any energy?
which is what would have to happen if you were then gonna start all over and do it again and again
and THAT's not even considering how to get heavy work out of it all
i guess the illustration would be that if your car was approaching me at a faster speed
and i was REAL strong
i could grab onto yer mirror and hang on like the dickens till we were equal in speed
which would slow you down and speed me up
and i BELIEVE incur a net loss of energy
or at least COST energy from myself--in order to even hold on
(outside energy from my arm being required to add to the system)
or i could fling myself with my arm--out ahead of you
(but that would be from the energy in my arm, so...)
now...if you are counting on getting that fling from..oh whatever--magnetism
or some possible springy flingy energies from between the molecules and atoms in some material in the mechanism
then that might work and you're getting your added necessary energy from a quantum dimension
and yer right back there with me again
hi
howya doin' buddy?
lemme LOOK at ya
where ya been?
lol
that wouldn't be breaking any newtonion law, by the way--just cheating
because he didn't really go there
After the motion is extracted from the moving weights that are moving at different speeds and this motion is caused to move into the wheel and the two weights are again moving the speed of the wheel, then the two weights swap roles. Once again the two weights change velocities within the wheel. Once again we can use their velocity difference to do work. Once again this causes the two weights to revert back to moving at the same speed. We repeat the process again and again.
Yes it sounds crazy. But aren't all PM wheel proposals a little bit crazy?
Bill keeps asking, where's the energy source. To answer that we need to fully understand the concept of kinetic motion energy. And also understand that KE is always relative energy. It's not conservative.
