BesslerWheel.com

[rlortie]

Conservative forces
Thoughts from a layman

Gravity is said to be a conservative force, magnetism is also considered a conservative force.

Belonging to forums related to both topics, I often hear the same phrase. We need to find a solution to get the magnet paste the ?gate? and to lift the weights back to the top.

Is it not possible to utilize a combination of conservative forces working together or augmenting each other, each performing to there own physical forces.

A motor with magnets in both rotor and stator will function in opposing fields until they have to re-enter the opposing stator field. One only need a small nudge or pumping of stator magnet to over come this ?Gate? the rotor then can be repelled for the rest of one revolution.

Now I am no mathematician, but let?s say the rotor is powered for 340 degrees, we need enough potential gravity built up in that time to force the rotor 20 degrees through the gate. Is not 20, 1/17 of 340. Can 340 degrees store enough lifted mass or energy (kinetic or inertial) to overcome the 20 or 1/17 degrees needed to over come the gate.

I would think that a large dense flywheel geared to a higher rpm than the motor would be sufficient, but I have never seen or heard of this concept being tested.

Now I wish for you mathematicians to tell me what is wrong with this thinking.
I want all the input I can get to condense and consider alternatives.

Thank You

Ralph

_________________
http://www.arrache.org/

[Ed]

This is exactly what Wesley Gary supposedly did in 1879. He balanced magnetism and gravity and made them work together. Even if we disregard his special reversal of magnetism, he writes about devices that just used the balanced shunting of magnetism with the force of gravity.

If you haven't already, you can read the original article from here:

http://johannbessler.com/wwgary/wwgary.pdf


-Ed

---

fig3.gif
Description:
Filesize:	19.08 KB
Viewed:	621 Time(s)

---

[rlortie]

Ed,

Thank you for the response.

Yes I am familiar with Wesley Gary's invention. I have often considered him the Bessler of magnetism, fortunately he left us with a little more understandable info than Bessler. I have played around with his descriptive principle but never had the patience to get it balanced magnetically or operate. I probably first heard of Gary as early as 1958 while studying electronics in the service.

Being about 150 years newer and written in English, it sure helps ease the trial and tribulation of understanding. Here we have the plans for proof of principle, sure wish Bessler would have been as accommodating.

Regards

Ralph

[Jonathan]

I haven't heard of any of Gary's devices using magnetism and gravity, and the link you provided only has the ones I know of.
I don't think combining conservative forces will work because 0+0=0.

_________________
Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.

[Ed]

From page 604 of the Harper's article:

[Ed]

By the way, I designed and build an engine based on this principle a while back and all it needs to work is an appropriate non-linear spring or springs to make it work.

I got frustrated trying to get the spring working and got side-tracked by the Bessler stuff. :-)

I even have it mostly working (except the spring) inside of WM2D, since you can simulate magnets if done properly.

I can show my material on this if anyone is seriously interested.

-Ed

[ken_behrendt]

I think Gary's concept of the "neutral line" for magnets is valid and does allow magnetic shielding to be used to build a permanent magnet motor. However, although his principle seems simple enough, I have never heard of anybody else being able to duplicate it successfully. His devices seem too simple to have been hoaxes.

ken

_________________
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:

Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ

[Jonathan]

Oh you're right Ed, I've seen that before.
I've tried to replicate Gary's results, but I didn't have the patience at the time. I think I may try again.
I'm interested to hear more of your device. Also, I know how to make springs whose "stiffness" changes as a function of extention, if that is what you mean by nonlinear.

[Ed]

[rlortie]

Ed,

Where as I have been chasing magnets for over half my life, any input about your past experience would be appreciated.

What got me interested in using plain gravity, or in the form of inertia and kinetic forces was watching Manito and Johnson. they both had to pump their stator magnet. Dennis Lee is no different.

Imagine if you will a Manito rotor with his ecliptically 180 degrees of repel.
Now attach the stator magnet to a cam linkage that is timed to push them out as the rotor hits the gate. then the cam allows the weighted stator to fall in or compress the repel field against rotor.

What creates the energy to force the weighted stator out, for one its own repel force as rotor leaves field. Second I see the cam driven by a flywheel and a Bessler bellcrank and possibly a pendulum.

The rotor could be made up of two sets of magnets and the stator also doubled. they would open and close every 180 degrees similar to brake shoes on a automobile (not disk).

There is a magnetic motor now being publicly shown that has this clam shell effect. Memory is getting bad but I think it's called the "Perendov". difference is their stator is stationary after closing and does not operate with the rotation of rotor. They rely on the Johnson or Muller concept. All though it is an impressive motor, I do not have much faith in it. add a cam, heavy flywheel and connecting rod and then "maybe"

looking forward to your input.

Ralph

[Jonathan]

It can work with compression too. Can WM2D simulate fluids?

[ken_behrendt]

Ralph...I didn't know you were also into magnets...I thought you were strictly a pendulum man. Anyway, I read your post and made up the attached for you. It combines a typical Bessler mechanism with a Minato style magnet wheel.

The idea is that this wheel will be self-pumping. As the pendula are pulled toward the axle of the flywheel, the heavy permanent magnets they carry begin to interact with the disc magnets on the flywheel. On the right side of the flywheel rotor (which is the ascending side), the pendulum magnet repels the rotor magnets and produces a counter clockwise torque. On the left side of the flywheel rotor (which is the descending side), the pendulum magnet attracts the rotor magnets and ALSO produces a counter clockwise torque.

In theory, this design should "pump" the flywheel rotor once per rotation.

Will it work? If I can figure out how to simulate magnetic interactions on WM2D, then maybe I can try modeling it and seeing how the rotor torque changes versus time...

ken


Note: the design attached to this post is flawed...I've posted a corrected and improved design a few posts down...

---

pendpermagrot_jpeg.jpg
Description:
Filesize:	31.86 KB
Viewed:	579 Time(s)

---

[Ed]

[Ed]

Ken,

[ken_behrendt]

Whoops! I was checking out how my "Double Pendula Pumped Permanent Magnet Rotor" looked while using my webTV receiver and realized I messed up the design. The magnetic forces on the left or ascending side of that first design would have created a clockwise torque which would have cancelled out the counter clockwise torque of the right side magnetic interactions...sorry about that!

Below is a corrected design in which the magnetic interactions on BOTH sides create a counter clockwise torque at all times. As in the former design, this new improved design will "pump" the rotor once per revolution.

ken

---

2pendmagrotor_jpeg.jpg
Description:	Corrected and improved design...
Filesize:	30.39 KB
Viewed:	580 Time(s)

---