Back 300 years ago, there were no 'torches" to heat up lead so as to easily re-mold it again. You needed to take the lead to the local blacksmith shop, where there was a forge, and the blacksmith would melt and recast the lead.
You need to add another zero to that! It is statements like this that keep you in the barrel! You are old enough to recall how plumbers used hub cast iron sewer pipe and joined it using hemp or jute and sealing it by melting lead, no forge or blacksmith required.
Where have you been hiding for the last 3,000 years?
Have you forgotten your history lessons.
In alchemy, lead was thought to be the oldest metal and was associated with the planet Saturn. Alchemists accordingly used Saturn's symbol (the scythe, ♄) to refer to lead. (two AP clues)
Lead can be melted on an open fire or over an alcohol or gas burner, all you need is to add a little air to the flame such as a blow pipe or a vacuum cleaner set to blow rather than suck.
When my brother and I were younger we gathered lead that 'fell' off roofs.
We made a little stick fire, melted the lead in a pan and poured into moulds . These lead weights we sold to anglers.
Or we made bigger ingots and sold to the scrap man.
Not bad for a pair of 8 year olds.!!
Basically you don't need a blacksmith to made lead weights,
John
Over the years I have continued to be bemused by your fixation with numbers and how they may lead to the holy grail.
As you favour 5, others may choose 2, 4, 7, 9 etc.
You can make any number from any group of numbers. Anything and everything in existence can have a number applied to it and be given plausible meaning. Even nothing can have a number.
I choose a less numerical path to evaluating the clues.
I use my 1 brain to think, my 2 eyes to digest the information and 2 ears to listen to others criticism .
Hi,i think the tube weight that bessler presented to people was not the weight but the central support for the weights, for your lead weights Jim ,these weights are round and they rotate in there chambers ,this way large weights can rotate with a very low ntw allowing the energy you do create to get out .
John i agree with you the number five is very important take the 5 its self split the five into two shapes you have a right angle and a curved chamber ,take the roman numeral V you have the storks bill .
Just for the record i believe the wheel would have been impossible to move as well, all the evidence in my small mind says if it was to fall over to one side it would destroy the light frame work in side that could support the weights whilst in there vertical positions ,Bessler also had a cloth cover over the front to stop the weights from being seen and the mechansium this would also not stop the weights from moving to the front and creating even more damage which bessler did not need ,how does,all of this is mho and experience i hope i ring some bells out there.
rlortie wrote:Lead can be melted on an open fire or over an alcohol or gas burner, all you need is to add a little air to the flame such as a blow pipe or a vacuum cleaner set to blow rather than suck.
Or a bellows... Good grief.
Jim makes unnecessary trips to the blacksmith. So who's the plumbum?
It is also quite possible that these 4# weights were merely intended as a distraction. In that Bessler wouldn't allow the witnesses to feel the ends of the weights, it has been assumed here that perhaps they were bored through their length like beads on an abicus whose sole purpose was to produce the sound heard as eight weights falling on the descending side.
A reasonable exercise for those better versed in math than I, would be to calculate how much mass was necessary, at 26 RPM turning in a 12-foot diameter wheel, to lift an adult (say 200#) off his feet when this person attempted to stop the wheel by force.
Chris, I have only commented on the apparent importance of numbers in Bessler's work without offering any explanations, but I do hold to my pet theory about how the number 5 is used and as I said I hope to show my reasoning in due course.
If I appear to be fixated with numbers than that is merely a reflection of Bessler's apparent fixation.
bessler most likely only made trips to the blacksmith to buy some ingots or was it to see his lover ?
anyway , lead does not take much to melt especially if you hack it up in smaller pieces ,
I have melted lead many times , heck today we
can melt aluminium for ingots right at home .
ab hammer would know alot more when it comes
to melting , after all he is the only black Smith around here I believe .
ab hammer you have the upper hand it seems ,
we would need to come to you when we find
a runner !
what is it about numerology and code finders anyway ?
I remember when I were apart of mr Chris Farmer's benchley park cipher/code breaking team , there were about 2 members highly affixed to using numerology for solving almost everything , and yet they blindly believed whatever the outcome was ,that that's the answer even when being wrong .
numerology only applies when numerology is the
source used for encipherment/encoding in the first place .
you can apply numerology to anything and be amazed at the outcome , just think about the pyramids for an obscure example .
well you could be correct by applying numerology or you could be wrong as is the case with many
other methods , its a gamble in any sense of direction you choose , I for one am not into numerology but you may find that it has its uses
when needed and therefore we are all just opinionated until the layers of secrecy were to be revealed ..
if you are a numerologist in this subject then
I am sure you could find evidence to back it up
and if you are not one , then I am sure you could
also back your case up , I prefer to be an open
minded individual with a wider field of view ,
I therefore do not scoff at any attempt anyone
makes with any methods , the nature of
the situation is such that at this moment anything is possible , let us not forget it is only
our beliefs that we have now .
triplock wrote:When my brother and I were younger we gathered lead that 'fell' off roofs.
We made a little stick fire, melted the lead in a pan and poured into moulds . These lead weights we sold to anglers.
Or we made bigger ingots and sold to the scrap man.
Not bad for a pair of 8 year olds.!!
Basically you don't need a blacksmith to made lead weights,
Chris
Not bad indeed for a pair (twins?) of 8 year olds. Very precocious.
I suppose if one lived by the sea one might be given more freedom to roam along the beach picking up driftwood and making fires.
Bit difficult to see parents giving such freedom to a townie like me - especially nowadays with all the red top paranoia about child abduction.
Who is she that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the moon, bright as the sun, terribilis ut castrorum acies ordinata?
johannesbender wrote:bessler most likely only made trips to the blacksmith to buy some ingots or was it to see his lover ?
anyway , lead does not take much to melt especially if you hack it up in smaller pieces ,
I have melted lead many times , heck today we
can melt aluminium for ingots right at home .
ab hammer would know alot more when it comes
to melting , after all he is the only black Smith around here I believe .
ab hammer you have the upper hand it seems ,
we would need to come to you when we find
a runner !
what is it about numerology and code finders anyway ?
I remember when I were apart of mr Chris Farmer's benchley park cipher/code breaking team , there were about 2 members highly affixed to using numerology for solving almost everything , and yet they blindly believed whatever the outcome was ,that that's the answer even when being wrong .
numerology only applies when numerology is the
source used for encipherment/encoding in the first place .
you can apply numerology to anything and be amazed at the outcome , just think about the pyramids for an obscure example .
well you could be correct by applying numerology or you could be wrong as is the case with many
other methods , its a gamble in any sense of direction you choose , I for one am not into numerology but you may find that it has its uses
when needed and therefore we are all just opinionated until the layers of secrecy were to be revealed ..
if you are a numerologist in this subject then
I am sure you could find evidence to back it up
and if you are not one , then I am sure you could
also back your case up , I prefer to be an open
minded individual with a wider field of view ,
I therefore do not scoff at any attempt anyone
makes with any methods , the nature of
the situation is such that at this moment anything is possible , let us not forget it is only
our beliefs that we have now .
jb
This Chris Farmer?
Who is she that cometh forth as the morning rising, fair as the moon, bright as the sun, terribilis ut castrorum acies ordinata?
Apologies J.M. off-topic to this discussion......Many have stated Bessler used a "coiled spring"to turn his wheel etc.(loading/unloading in its motion)......It would no easy task to "anchor"such a large spring and conceal in any rotation design .....ie., the anchored side of the coil spring...must be stationery(grounded) to do work and be loaded/unloaded...a slipping device in such a design would be plausible to prevent "overwinding"(breaking the spring)...
I looked at the question and thought. What amount of force can 4lbs do?
If you have a 4lb mace or ball and chain does a lot of damage when used in a fight.
4lb cannon ball will go through a brick wall with only a third coke can of black powder. We where testing with a 3lb ball.
What I have come to the conclusion about this, is that 4lb was the mark for not to overpower each action and the combinations of 4lb weights of each stacked section. Just think how difficult it is to lift a 4lb weight 6 feet away on a stick from you with one hand and keep it strait out. LOL Most people couldn't do it with only 2 feet as I have seen with a simple 4lb sledge hammer. Our tough guy contest as I was growing up was a sledge hammer lifted up with arm out strait and allow the hammer back towards your face and touch your nose. LOL their was a few epic fails of this contest. LOL
"Our education can be the limitation to our imagination, and our dreams"
well the question and subject of this thread is
interesting to me , I mean if it was a collection of
4 pounds making up a value of weight then the total amount of said collection would be in the order of multiples of 4 .
can we safely say that every weight was 4 pounds ?
or were there 16 ounces weights too ?
if there were only 4 pounds weights then there
is no leverage by weight advantage per any lever but instead lenghts , wich brings us to another
interesting thing , if there were overbalance it would also be in the order of fours.
if there were only 8 weights of 4 pounds then we had 32 pounds correct ? now of it were literally empty one side and full the other, then 32 pounds by 8 sounds that were heard ,were only 32 pounds of OB ....theoretical argument.
assuming that no weights came together to share weight per lever , but .... did he not say that
they came together ..mmmmm
sooo assuming that there were 8 weights heard
per rotation , how can one even be sure there weren't really 16 weights together per rotation ,surely if they came to be placed together and it were to be by OB that the wheel functioned , then
the only place to be "together" cannot be on the opposite side of rotation ..
I guess even by knowing the weight of each, we
cannot form a better understanding of why because we are missing how many there were ..
I mean 4 pounds on the end of a long lever and
4 pounds closer towards the pivot of a long lever are something different , if he could shift 4 pounds on the length of levers then surely there must be a calculable value for 4 pounds every few inches moved along a lever wich yields us another interesting number beside 4 pounds for leverage. .
