Gravity assisted Normal Energy

[KAS]

As promised, this ramp device converts Normal force to Kinetic energy. I realised that to enable continual contact with the ramp, a different concept of movement was required. In this case, I ustilised a Jacobs ladder type belt system attached to a lightweight arc with the weight attached to the one end.
Incorporating this type of attachment, one can ensure continual contact with the ramp (upright or inverted) to allow the Nf to act on the weight and provide kinetic energy without the responsible weight losing height.
A prototype sub system has revealed that the speed of the weight as it traverses is akin to the speed of gravity. In other words it accelerates horizontally at 9.8 Mtrs per second ^2 until it reaches the end of the stroke and hammers a stop.
This simulates the inverted pendulum balance on the hand as mention in my previous post but in this case, gravity is used to chase the oob weight.
In this case, it acts differently in the the moving contact area acts as the pivot point which constantly changes.
Inverting the sub system resets the weight.
Gpe cannot be responsible for this energy as (a) gravity is conservative and (b) the weight maintains its original height. It can only be Mf that being transferred.

[ME]

NICE ! - especially the use of the Jacobs-ladder

But are you sure it's not the weight of that arc responsible for that movement?

[KAS]

No the arc isn't responsible. I made 2 prototype systems, one made from aluminium and one from extremely light carbon fibre.

In both cases, as soon as the angle of the ramp reached 30deg, the weight became oob to the pivot point (or where the straps/ belts cross). This Oob chase then continues with the speed of the weight accelerating until it hammers the stop.
If someone can tell me where this kinetic energy is coming from other than Nf I am prepared to listen. It has foxed me!

[ME]

I first need to find out how that weight keeps its height steady mathematically (before I can do calculus on its physics).
As the arc rolls, the weight moves CCW - for now I think that ramp must be curved ? - perhaps not, you didn't mention it.

[KAS]

No ME, the ramp is perfectly flat.

[ME]

Could you give the measurements of the carbon-fiber arc and the used weight, also the radius of the arc and the radius of the Center of Mass of the weight?

[Fletcher]

As promised, this ramp device converts Normal force to Kinetic energy.

I realised that to enable continual contact with the ramp, a different concept of movement was required. In this case, I ustilised a Jacobs ladder type belt system attached to a lightweight arc with the weight attached to the one end.

Incorporating this type of attachment, one can ensure continual contact with the ramp (upright or inverted) to allow the Nf to act on the weight and provide kinetic energy without the responsible weight losing height.

A prototype sub system has revealed that the speed of the weight as it traverses is akin to the speed of gravity. In other words it accelerates horizontally at 9.8 Mtrs per second ^2 until it reaches the end of the stroke and hammers a stop.

This simulates the inverted pendulum balance on the hand as mention in my previous post but in this case, gravity is used to chase the oob weight.
In this case, it acts differently in that the moving contact area acts as the pivot point which constantly changes.

Inverting the sub system resets the weight.

Gpe cannot be responsible for this energy as (a) gravity is conservative and (b) the weight maintains its original height.

It can only be Nf that being transferred.

Ingenious application and very original thought KAS ! Smart to use the Jacob's Ladder belts instead of more traditional cogs etc. Nice touche' to the Toy Page.

A few questions, clarifications, and perhaps observations if you please.

I think we can see that the arc material will lose a little height (GPE) as the mass translates horizontally when ramp at 30 degrees. You have used different materials in your prototypes and the reactions are almost identical. Then the arc material gains a little GPE on the reset !?

You have said that the translating mass accelerates at 9.8 m/s^2 (same as gravity acceleration) and thus when it hits its stop the mass will have gained a determinable amount of KE. This KE gained horizontally therefore must be equal to the mass translating the same linear distance vertically ? (as though dropped in a gravity field). This can be calculated (less some friction losses).

Yet, it appears from your observations that the KE gain of the translating mass (which loses no GPE) is way in excess of the GPE lost of the arc material (including belts) when moving to the left and way in excess of the GPE gain in the arc material etc on the right direction reset ???

Can you confirm that I have it right so far ? Or have I forgotten or not understood something ?

If the KE > GPE (lost/gained) then it must have come from a different source than vertical displacement in a gravity field, perhaps Nf as you speculate.

Did the reset angle change form 30 degrees ?

[scott]

Thanks for the very interesting idea, KAS. Many have proposed that MT 138-141 depicts some form of Jacob's Ladder. http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index. ... 38-141.gif

[Fletcher]

Just to be clear.


If KAS is correct with his numbers then his idea is more than just innovative - it's astounding !


According to WEEP (for vertical movement up and down in a gravity field) Energy is Capacity to do Work measured in joules.


Energy / Work Done = force (Gf N's) x distance / displacement (vertical m's) where Gf is Gravity force


But .. in this case, it seems ...


Energy (Capacity to do Work) = force ( Nf N's) x distance /displacement (horizontal m's) where Nf is Normal force


To put it in perspective ...


We all know that a sphere can roll down a ramp - it will gain as much KE (velocity related) as the GPE lost in vertical height drop.


In KAS's instance the Nf replaces the Gf (of conservative gravity force) to give the same energy result without substantial vertical height loss and loss of GPE.


IOW's the energy potential of using Nf would be both perpendicular to conservative gravity force and equal in magnitude for the same scalar distance/displacement.

[WaltzCee]

Ingenious application and very original thought KAS !

I have a lot of regard for you Fletcher. You're a bit off in your opinion here. It is a fascinating idea, yet it isn't novel (original?).

[WaltzCee]

As promised, this ramp device converts Normal force to Kinetic energy.

Thank you for sharing. I've hit your green.

Now, it's up to you to enlighten the wise here precisely what you're talking about. Work with the ME's here. The Fletchers. The Mich's. If that's what you want, they're here.

[KAS]

Thanks for the positive feedback guys. I need to leave for work now but I will post more details and photos of the prototype sub systems later today.

I see where you are coming from Fletch about the weight of the supporting arc. I had the same thoughts which made me seek extra light materials.
This had no effect on the quite forceful Ke produced and I assure you it's the weight that doing all the work as it remains Oob of the rolling pivot area (where the straps cross) at a ramp angle of 30deg or more.

Post later-

[mickegg]

Hi KAS

Neat idea. Nice to see you back posting.

In trying to imagine the path of the weight I keep seeing it following a curved path (trochoid) instead of a straight line....though I accept it behaves as you state

Is the arc not circular but perhaps epicycloid in form?

My maths are somewhat lacking for these geometric paths.

Regards

Mick

[KAS]

Ok, ready now to upload some photos of the sub system.
As you can see, the mass maintains its height during its moment and inertia is felt if you hold it while the arc is descending.

ME, the radius is immaterial as you can put in any value you like so long as the plate length equals half the circumference.

This idea came to me a few years ago after reading Bessler's revalation that the answer lay in a simple child's toy (Jacobs ladder?)

A lot has happened in my life which meant that this concept had to be put on hold for a few years, but I am picking up where I left off now. Haven't given much thought of the practical applications of such a device on a rotating system and I am open to ideas. Please ask as many questions as you like.

[ME]

It's astounding when it can be made to go full circle.
I'll try a simulation: I also do think the path is a cycloid and hypothesize the light-weight-arc is the cause for overbalance - and thus the system looses GPE.
The main question: Does it matter in this case.