My First Post

[jasinlishi]

Hello all! I love this forum already... First I would like to say that I do not have plans nor have I built anything yet. I also will say that more than likely I will fail throughout my lifetime if I do try. I am a practical thinker, though I am aware of the thermo and other laws, I do not believe in them completely.
I am not a mathematician though I could be... My main belief is very simple. Gravity/Magnetism will be used to produce energy, only time is the factor.
I have a large background in internet marketing, not so much development, though my partners take care of that end. I am a partner in an IT company, if it has to do with computers or the internet, we do it.

When a machine is built, the internet will be the key to mass marketing quickly enough to not get shut down. I have plans for that.

I am not sure if I believe in wheels... yet. More on the pendulum order.
you can see a very simple and my first/second animation here

www.crazebay.com/wheel2.swf

What I find most unique about pendulums is that in a closed loop a drop from the top gains a better than 75% return, before it begins its decent. If TD laws are correct a pendulum should stop at the bottom, but gravity is not energy or it is so believed.... So it is disproven... momentum swings it back up, but gravity acts as the outside force... then acts as the "energy" to bring it back down.
Maybe we can capture and store electricity from the top drop to the final swing of the pendulum enough to bring the pendulum back up to the top?

Magnets, I am trying to figure out the Halbach Array and why it works...

Anyway thats what I am up to, and why I think I may have found a home... Not many understand things I say...maybe that will change...
Any input on my animation or anything I have written will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
-J

[ken_behrendt]

jasinlishi...

Welcome to the Besslerwheel.com Discussion Board. We value your input and hope to see you posting your opinions on the various forums.

I was not able to see your pendulum device because the link you posted did not work. You should use the attachment fields at the bottom of the Post Editor Page to upload any graphics you have. In that way, the images are stored on this site's server and can readily be viewed by all members.

There is some interest in pendulum and magnetic devices here and many believe that Bessler's wheels could have been powered by internal pendulum mechanisms. In the past I have tried to design pendulum powered wheels but was not successful. Now, I am restricting myself to designs that use spring shifted weights so as to create a chronic state of imbalance in a wheel.

ken

[jasinlishi]

Ken and all who look at my link it is a flash file! Please make sure a flash player is installed.. Hard to believe you dont already have it! ;)

http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/dow ... kwaveFlash

Thanks...
-J

[rlortie]

Jasinlishi,

I was able to open your link and found a pendulum with a magnet attached by rope. I also see that the rope goes slack as the magnet traverses what appears to be a "Smott" track.

How does dragging a magnet keep the pendulum turning. Oh! I get it the smott track is a field coil and is energized by the magnet which powers a motor attached to the Pendulum.

May I suggest putting a magnet on the other end as well, then you have twice the horsepower and a balanced pendulum. Oh well, its a thought.

Ralph

[jasinlishi]

Ralph,
Sorry that is not a magnet...it is simply a weight.. The roller track at the bottom does product electricity, but more importantly it over balances the pendulum... "takes the weight off" on the down stroke CCW the pendulum weighs more. As a Pendulum will turn over 75% under its own power I am trying to gain extra momentum by reducing the weght during part of the spin...
-J

[ken_behrendt]

Well, I did download the Macro Media Flash Player okay, but I still was unable to view your video file. All I get when I click on the link is a white page and it says "Done" at the bottom. I'm not sure what the problem is...maybe my Fire Wall is blocking the download for some reason.

Anyway, I like your idea of a "rectified" pendulum. That is, find a way to make a pendulum weigh more on one side of its pivot point than on the other.

Hmmm...I wonder if it could be possible to produce this effect by mechanically coupling two pendula together in some way?

Anyway, best of luck with you device...

ken

[rlortie]

Jasinlishi,

OK my mechanical brain comprehends what you mean about unloading the pendulum weight. Problem now is, you have lost that inertial mass which caused the pendulum to swing that far in the first place.

In a counter-clockwise configuration 6:00 o'clock is where I would think you would want all the inertial and centrifugal force you could build in order to reach 12:00 o'clock. After all you are still carrying the weight plus you have to accelerate it back up to pendulum speed to be carried up by said pendulum.

Here is my instant annotation of your idea: I am sure you have heard the statement "One brick short"... This is a little more complicated but lets take your pendulum and place it in a wheel that is connected by sun and planetary gearing. attach weights around the inner perimeter using clips. As the pendulum reaches 12 it snatches a weight, and drops it at six. your outer weight carrying rim is traveling clockwise packing one more weight ascending at a lower gear ratio than what the pendulum is accelerating with as it drops. Gear ratio is determined by the number of weights so that there is always one at twelve and a hole at six. Remember that the ascending side of levered (Geared) wheel is always and only one weight shy of balanced.

Boy am I getting good at these off the wall ideas or what!!! :-)

Ralph

[rks1878]

Jas:

Welcome to the forum.

I was able to open your file.

Wondering...what about the friction envolved with dragging that block along....or were those circles, magnets firing in sequence?

[ken_behrendt]

All this talk about pendula got me to thinking about Jas's concept of a self-pumping pendulum.

Below is attached a WM2D model I made for one such pendulum that seems to work!

The pendulum terminates in a curved hollow structure which contains a metal ball that is free to roll back and forth as the pendulum swings from right to left. The two curved pieces weight a total of 10 lbs and the ball is 5 lbs.

I thought that this pendulum would only display PM so long as there was no air resistance, so to make sure it was, in fact, displaying PM, I set the air resistance to the "low" setting and then adjusted the k value to 0.100 lb/ft-sec. I used this somewhat lower than default setting to simulate the effect of a physical model with an aerodynamically optimized rolling ball chamber.

As can be seen from the inserted angular momentum graph for the simulation, the pendulum maintained its steady oscillation amplitude and frequency for 150 seconds until the simulation was stopped.

It was interesting to observe the ball weight rolling back and forth in such a way that it always removed its weight during the upstroke of the pendulum, but then applied it again during the downstroke. Although the graphical oscillations of the pendulum did not visibly increase in amplitude, it would seem that this pendulum design had to be producing energy if it was able to continuously overcome air resistance while in motion.

ken

[Georg Künstler]

you get an increase, when you use, instead of your ball a rolling cylinder with unequal mass distribution.

Thats not an other glitch in WM2D, your way is right.

the future has begun

Georg

[Ed]

Here we go again.... :0

Ken, many concoctions will seem to keep moving without friction added to the pivot point. Air resistance is sometimes not enough to put an unrealistic sim to rest.

Besides, your graph looks to me like it is not self sustaining but slowly slowing down.

-Ed

[Techstuf]

Ken, your 'perpetual pendulum' exercise is impressive....If it were up to me, I wouldn't let your thought processes swing in another direction.


Peace,

TS

[rlortie]

Ken,

IMO you may sustain an amplitude longer with the rolling ball but I doubt it will increase it. In a sense you have a limited pendulum (the ball) within a pendulum, amplitude will still be governed by the length of pivot rod. Its like removing part of the bob mass momentarily on the up swing and adding it to the down swing. According to Einstein and Newton its going to fall at the same rate anyway.

What is your pivot rod length in the above simm. measured from center of pivot to center of ball? To match your total weight this would be nice to know.

I admit it would not take long to throw one together and play with it. one long sweep of electrical conduit a rod, ball and two end caps and you got it. I bet I could find that in my bone yard where the black widows thrive.

By the way, your apology and explanation for the "No"! is accepted. It hit me at a bad time as I was already at the end of my patience with the wind and my trailer reroofing.

Ralph

[ken_behrendt]

Well, it seems like my "Self-Sustaining Pendulum" model has polarized our membership into two distinct camps: those that think it could be the "real" thing and those that feel it is either slowly losing amplitude over time or is just another WM2D glitch.

I, myself, do not know what camp to reside in at the moment. While it is a known fact that WM2D can produce erroneous simulations that display PM, I wonder if that could actually be the case here. I have studied the angular momentum graph for the model's simulation and I think, after 150 seconds of the swinging ball chamber slicing its way through the atmosphere, it should have displayed a far more noticeable decay. Yet, it seems steady enough and I am wondering what would happen if I was to drop the air resistance further or even reduce it to zero to simulate the effect of having the device placed in a vacuum chamber? Perhaps, if that was done, then the amplitude of the oscillations would actually increase!

I think if anybody wants to take a crack at building such a pendulum, then he should try to make the curvature of the ball chamber match the arc of its trajectory while moving as closely as possible. Also, the curved length of the chamber should be large enough so that the chamber can rise as high as possible on the upstroke before the ball impacts against the end of the chamber and begins applying its weight to the chamber for the downstroke.

Anyway, at a minimum, it's another possibility for you "pendulum men" to ponder along your path to PM...


Ralph...

I am glad to read that you are not angry with me over that post I made in the tread on possible designs for the method Bessler used to support the axles of his rotating wheels.

Actually, there are probably dozens of different effective ways of doing it and each of us will see one or more of them based on our particular mechanical background when reading the few ambiguous descriptions concerning them given in the Bessler literature.

You inquired about the length of the pendulum rod that was used in my model. I think it was exactly 3.3 ft from the pivot to the center of the ball when the pendulum was upright and the ball was resting in the middle of the chamber.

ken

[Jonathan]

I agree with Ed, Ken. If you open that picture in Paint and zoom in, I think the right side is about four pixels shorter than the left.