| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
jupter
Enthusiast
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 27
Total Words: 1,716
Reputation: Acknowledged
|
 Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 3:57 am Post subject: Veljko Milkovic secondary oscillation |
 |
|
hello every one i have been reading a lot of your posts . i made my first wheel with a rear wheel from a 10 speed and used the ratchet gear as my power source my attemt was fun yet failled . i am new at this and have a very long way to go...anyway ....
any thoughts on valjko milkovics secondary oscillation and the use of this inside besslers wheel . brian berrett using milkovics desine showes The input force remained at around one pound, to keep the primary pendulum swinging, but the bathroom scale was now bouncing between around seven and twenty pounds
http://pesn.com/2007/03/18/9500462_Berrett_pendulums
|
|
 |
|
rlortie
Addict
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 5102
Total Words: 702,056
Location: Stanfield Or.
Reputation: Highly regarded
|
| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: re: Veljko Milkovic secondary oscillation |
|
|
Jupter,
One thing that was not mentioned in your link: The foundation for this pendulum must be very firm and substantial. Did you note that the unit was bar clamped to the table saw.
I understand that any movement in the supporting structure will kill any readings of more out than in.
Ralph |
|
|
|
jupter
|
| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:06 am Post subject: re: Veljko Milkovic secondary oscillation |
|
|
i see what you mean ralph .would this work with pivot point on axis and mass to balance it? this is the first video i seen i forgot to post it
Directory:Milkovic Two-Stage Mechanical Oscillator - PESWiki
jupter
|
|
|
|
rlortie
|
| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:28 am Post subject: re: Veljko Milkovic secondary oscillation |
|
|
jupter,
I cannot answer your question, but I have thought about it. I am sure that it would take one heck of a large keel weight to keep it stationary. My thoughts were leading to a rachet design as somewhat described in your link.
If I were to follow up on this I would probably set up the pendulum drive on a platform and make the transference to ratchet drive.
Recently picked up two rachet pipe threaders at an estate sale for use in rachet designs. The largest will handle up to 2-1/2" pipe and has a handle on it three feet long!
Also one should note that the output on the bathroom scale was more when balanced weight was added. Only makes sense, a heavier hammer will produce more force.
Ralph
|
|
|
|
jupter
|
| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject: re: Veljko Milkovic secondary oscillation |
|
|
Ralph
i like the pipe wrench idea .i was thinking of that bike if you was to say put a small bike frame on the axis mounted like a ratchet and use this concept with a very bouncy spring under the hammer side and use the front wheel to hit the out side wheel. a lot of weight testing and stopping keel , iknow thats a lot of mass on the axis.it all makes me think about
snowflakes...just my thoughts desineing the wheel ...
jupter
|
|
|
|
Fletcher
Addict
Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 3160
Total Words: 479,018
Location: fiji
Reputation: Highly regarded
|
| Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:34 pm Post subject: re: Veljko Milkovic secondary oscillation |
|
|
Sounds like this should be easy enough to build in Working Model, unless I'm missing something ?
|
|
|
|
jupter
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 3:26 am Post subject: re: Veljko Milkovic secondary oscillation |
|
|
Fletcher
i am lost on the answers....
I.M.O. the ratchet is the lock and to reset the pendulum is the key. yet they both pay the price to friction unless maybe i could turn the door.....?.....friction /balance/timing/ god rested on the seventh day did he turn on the gyroscope to reset?
just my thoughts spinning the wheel...
|
|
|
|
Fletcher
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:36 am Post subject: re: Veljko Milkovic secondary oscillation |
|
|
I have my doubts about taming this device. First the swinging pendulum causes an up & down motion in the main lever arm. So far so good. The pendulum does this imo from CF's pulling on its pivot but that force is forever changing depending where the pendulum is in its swing.
Although it appears a regular motion I am pretty sure it is not if you try to moderate it by applying a timed pulse & it will quickly die down.
So the key is how to pulse it with the exact same force each time so that it swings the pendulum the same amplitude each stroke. Not to little & not to much to upset the timing. Mechanically that would seem quite hard to achieve.
I'm not particularly fond of electronics although that does seem a better approach to the problem. Once again though I would suspect that the electromagnet would need to be part of the pendulum else its pushing form an outside reference & can't adjust for the changing dynamics, so what does it push off ?
There appears to be some good keen men working on the problem of closing the loop so I will watch with interest form the sidelines.
|
|
|
|
rlortie
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:52 am Post subject: re: Veljko Milkovic secondary oscillation |
|
|
Fletcher,
YOU wrote:
| Quote: | Although it appears a regular motion I am pretty sure it is not if you try to moderate it by applying a timed pulse & it will quickly die down.
So the key is how to pulse it with the exact same force each time so that it swings the pendulum the same amplitude each stroke. Not to little & not to much to upset the timing. Mechanically that would seem quite hard to achieve. |
I have been under the impression that timing of a pendulum was set by the length of rod. any change of amplitude is made up for by velocity and cycle time is always constant. If I understand Galileo's pendulum laws????
Ralph
|
|
|
|
Fletcher
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:58 am Post subject: re: Veljko Milkovic secondary oscillation |
|
|
Well, I could be wrong but there is the little matter of the pendulum pivot not being fixed & moving. I wonder if Galileo factored that in & from what I thought I saw on the video the lever arm seemed to have a somewhat erratic pulse which it could only have got from the pendulum which would mean one or both were slightly chaotic making it hard to give it the correct impulse each time ?
|
|
|
|
rlortie
|
| Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: re: Veljko Milkovic secondary oscillation |
|
|
Fletcher,
Your point is well taken!
I believe that all the mechanisms shown to date have the impulse timer/magnet mounted separate of the beam. My guess would be to make the pulse magnet and activation switch an intricate part of the beam. This would synchronize any chaotic movement and would set the unit into a resonate swing.
Timing would then compensate for the movement of the beam related to the pendulum and keep both in unison.
Ralph
|
|
|
|
jupter
|
| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 3:21 am Post subject: re: Veljko Milkovic secondary oscillation |
|
|
ralph
quote:
My guess would be to make the pulse magnet and activation switch an intricate part of the beam. This would synchronize any chaotic movement and would set the unit into a resonate swing.
i like that idea lots to think about.
|
|
|
|
|
Log in
Register
Search
Blogs
Blog News
Polls
FAQ
Wiki
