| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
coylo
Total Words: 22
|
|
 |
|
coylo
Total Words: 22
|
|
|
|
GraViTaR
Dabbler
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 20
Total Words: 1,841
Location: Connecticut
Reputation: None
|
 Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: re: Elliptical Track |
 |
|
Have ANY of you even completely read what I have posted and studied my pictures?
These examples you show are NOTHING like my concept. The Claudio Wheel is somewhat similar in the fact that there are multiple wheels rotating on different planes, but that is the only similarity.
|
|
|
|
AB Hammer
Devotee
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 1435
Total Words: 83,397
Location: La.
Reputation: Well respected
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject: re: Elliptical Track |
|
|
GraViTaR
May be you need to post a complete diagram and then point out your differences. Part diagrams and descriptions are allot of the time not fully understood because of an individuals intent. We cant see inside your head. We only have what we have seen to compare with.
I have tried to show what I see, and I understand your umbrella spokes are suppose to help but when you are trying to get a gravity wheel going, you need to be able to drive all the mechanisms off gravity, and over come any friction. Thats the trick, and that is what make seem easy but is hard to figure out.
_________________
"Our education can be the limitation to our imagination, and our dreams"
________________
With out a dream, there is no vision.
Alan
Last edited by AB Hammer on Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total. (0 percent) |
|
|
|
coylo
Total Words: 22
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:04 pm Post subject: re: Elliptical Track |
|
|
| Quote: | Have ANY of you even completely read what I have posted and studied my pictures?
These examples you show are NOTHING like my concept. |
Yes I have read what you wrote!
What is it with this whole elipse thing?
Just because a few elipses (paths) are found in nature dosen't necessarily mean it will help towards a working wheel, sheeesch!
This classical thinking of forced/guided overbalance just dosen't work!
If you strip all your ideas and the other(s) ideas I have posted, down to their fundamentals...... they are the same.
|
|
|
|
Jon J Hutton
Aficionado
Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 450
Total Words: 42,553
Location: Guatemala
Reputation: Well respected
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: re: Elliptical Track |
|
|
Ok......
This is really a duh but I will explain. Look at the drawing.....1 and 5 are balanced(but are rolling uphill). 7 and 3 are the only ones that offer oob(out of balance)....is it enough, no. All the rest even though they are out of balance they are rolling uphill. Out of balance that is useful can only happen when the weight furthest out is rolling down, with gravity .
| Description: |
|
| Filesize: |
22.26 KB |
| Viewed: |
211 Time(s) |
|
|
|
|
|
rmd3
Enthusiast
Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 203
Total Words: 33,127
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Reputation: Appreciated
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: re: Elliptical Track |
|
|
Here's another pictorial attempt at explaining why the track carries the weight that you would want (even if it should be further out by the rim).
Taking one weight as an example. The force due to gravity is the sum of the forces that (1) support the weight on the spoke of the wheel, and (2) support the weight on the track. It doesn't matter where the track touches your ball (be it the bottom, or on an edge, or wherever) - if the track is supporting your weight, your track is taking away your intended advantage.
| Description: |
| Weight is shared by spoke and track. |
|
| Filesize: |
28.84 KB |
| Viewed: |
248 Time(s) |
|
_________________
-Randall |
|
|
|
evgwheel
Aficionado
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 370
Total Words: 31,339
Reputation: Acknowledged
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: re: Elliptical Track |
|
|
GraViTaR
GraViTaR wrote:
| Quote: | Have ANY of you even completely read what I have posted and studied my pictures?
These examples you show are NOTHING like my concept. The Claudio Wheel is somewhat similar in the fact that there are multiple wheels rotating on different planes, but that is the only similarity. |
Are you saying that your track is flexible and rotate (move) with the weights?
If you still feel it works, Let us know what is different with your design to give it the working edge. If you get to the stage of “it should work, but it doesn’t” leave it alone for 3 months and look at it again later. Merry Xmas and may 2008 reveal the answer. EVG
|
|
|
|
rlortie
Addict
Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 5107
Total Words: 702,697
Location: Stanfield Or.
Reputation: Highly regarded
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: re: Elliptical Track |
|
|
GraViTaR,
You can debate and defend your proposal until this forum runs out to band width and achieve nothing.
The only way You are going to satisfy your adamant feelings is to get off the computer and build it.
I have suggested this to many of "Newbies" some who have now told you the same thing. Build it, for if you don't it will hinder any future innovation as you carry the doubt.
Ralph
|
|
|
|
GraViTaR
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:31 am Post subject: Re: re: Elliptical Track |
|
|
| evgwheel wrote: | GraViTaR
Are you saying that your track is flexible and rotate (move) with the weights?
If you still feel it works, Let us know what is different with your design to give it the working edge. If you get to the stage of “it should work, but it doesn’t” leave it alone for 3 months and look at it again later. Merry Xmas and may 2008 reveal the answer. EVG |
Thank you, evgwheel, for realizing that there is something different here. And thanks to EVERYONE in this discussion for stating opinions, ideas and information upon which ALL of us can expand our work.
My idea is two different wheels sharing the same balls.
The "classic" wagon wheel in which the balls ride within the spokes, and the conical array of rods that guide the balls in their elliptical path via the holes through the center of the balls.
The ball at 9:00 in the wagon wheel is also furthest from the hub of the conical array. This spot produces maximum torque on both wheels. It magnifies the effect.
The balls roll up and down the length of the wagon wheel spokes, and they SLIDE up and down the length of the rods.
Conversely, look at the 3:00 spoke. The ball is at its closest point to the hub. It is also at it's closest point to the hub of the rod array.
In effect, the two wheels are turning each other with the one, shared set of eight balls. The rods guide the balls to the rim at 9:00, and the spokes slide the balls farthest away from the hub of the rod array at the same point.
|
|
|
|
LustInBlack
Devotee
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 1831
Total Words: 118,219
Reputation: Respected
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:58 am Post subject: re: Elliptical Track |
|
|
I believe it doesn't work the way you describe.. You are still supporting your weight and changing it's path...
I think you miss the point.. You force your weight in an oval path, at 9 or 3, the weight doesn't apply full force as you deviate it to bring it into an oval path.. It might as well slide it doesn't change anything..
It's the same as the pictures in this thread .. Take them as 2 wheels too, it doesn't move ..
The position of the weight isn't the whole story..
_________________
[- LustInBlack -]
Last flames of the dying sun.
|
|
|
|
bluesgtr44
Devotee
Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 1808
Total Words: 218,905
Location: U.S.A.
Reputation: Highly regarded
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: re: Elliptical Track |
|
|
Hey Grav...
| Quote: | Thank you, evgwheel, for realizing that there is something different here. And thanks to EVERYONE in this discussion for stating opinions, ideas and information upon which ALL of us can expand our work.
My idea is two different wheels sharing the same balls.
The "classic" wagon wheel in which the balls ride within the spokes, and the conical array of rods that guide the balls in their elliptical path via the holes through the center of the balls.
The ball at 9:00 in the wagon wheel is also furthest from the hub of the conical array. This spot produces maximum torque on both wheels. It magnifies the effect.
The balls roll up and down the length of the wagon wheel spokes, and they SLIDE up and down the length of the rods.
Conversely, look at the 3:00 spoke. The ball is at its closest point to the hub. It is also at it's closest point to the hub of the rod array.
In effect, the two wheels are turning each other with the one, shared set of eight balls. The rods guide the balls to the rim at 9:00, and the spokes slide the balls farthest away from the hub of the rod array at the same point. |
Now, think about this....you have one set of weights driving two wheels now. You have two contributors to friction (the weights sliding on the spokes and moving on the rail) as opposed to just one. It was pointed out earlier that at certain points on the descending side, it would actually be pushing the weight up the rail....this is not good. You could probably get a good eye full with a simple test.....cut up a couple of clothes hangers and stand a bicycle upside down. Now, make two rods out of the clothes hanger at 180 degrees apart and shape them like your umbrella idea, you won't even need weights for this......now use the spokes of the bike as your rails. Set your umbrella rods on the spokes and just hold it in the position you would want at 3 and 9 o'clock. Spin the tire around and see what happens at about 6 o'clock.....hmmmm. Now, if you hang the tire....see what happens at about 12 o'clock.
Steve
P.S. This is going with the design you presented here.....
_________________
Finding the right solution...is usually a function of asking the right questions. -A. Einstein
|
|
|
|
RIPPERTON
Enthusiast
Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 29
Total Words: 1,750
Location: Sydney
Reputation: None
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject: re: Elliptical Track |
|
|
Hi, just joined up. Its great to have a forum about Perpetual Motion and hundreds of people like me trying to discover it.
Heres a variation on the elliptical path concept. Imagine discs (weights 8mm in diameter) rolling in each of the elliptical slots. The main slotted disc rotates clockwise in the drawing and is flanked by covers so the weights dont fall out the side. The ellipse accelerates and decelerates the weight gradually so there is minimal freefalling or pause in thrust coming from the weight.
I was just about to send this pattern to the laser cutters when I put few dimensions on it and found it to be in perfect equilibrium (280=280).
I think this is the issue with all elliptical path machines.
| Description: |
|
| Filesize: |
92.59 KB |
| Viewed: |
235 Time(s) |
|
_________________
Attempt only the impossible. |
|
|
|
AB Hammer
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: re: Elliptical Track |
|
|
RIPPERTON
Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting another example why these don't work. There are allot of examples that look different but all have the same problems and when you add to those it just gets worst.
|
|
|
|
bluesgtr44
|
| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:31 pm Post subject: re: Elliptical Track |
|
|
Hey Rip....
| Quote: | Hi, just joined up. Its great to have a forum about Perpetual Motion and hundreds of people like me trying to discover it.
Heres a variation on the elliptical path concept. Imagine discs (weights 8mm in diameter) rolling in each of the elliptical slots. The main slotted disc rotates clockwise in the drawing and is flanked by covers so the weights dont fall out the side. The ellipse accelerates and decelerates the weight gradually so there is minimal freefalling or pause in thrust coming from the weight.
I was just about to send this pattern to the laser cutters when I put few dimensions on it and found it to be in perfect equilibrium (280=280).
I think this is the issue with all elliptical path machines. |
It's not about ellipses, so to speak....it's about an eccentric reaction taking place within a concentric enclosure, just an opinion on my part. Your design has ellipses....arranged in a concentric pattern. So, this is what I mean about not just being about ellipses.
Welcome to the madness!
Steve
|
|
|
|
|
Log in
Register
Search
Blogs
Blog News
Polls
FAQ
Wiki
