last one before the full machine

[nicbordeaux]

http://www.youtube.com/user/nicbordeaux ... 1zWWfREuc0

So, that is "overunity" or not ?


EDIT : probably better to watch this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EIikIEHqwU

[laikkis]

Still E=mgh=1/2mv^2 .

Don´t you see how he lift lever and releaseit.

Temperature is key to Bessler wheel.

Bessler water fountain works temperature difference. In surface water is warm but in bottom it is cold.

Cornelis Jacobszoon Drebbel knew this and use it like a Bessler.

[nicbordeaux]

Correct laikkis, you didn't see the thing being put into start position. Here is a video where you see and there is a written explanation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EIikIEHqwU

[axel]

No Nicko, this is not overunity.

I tried this approach a long time ago.

[nicbordeaux]

I can accept that it isn't overunity as shown running, but the energy required to lift to start point is minimal, the difference between the "pendular arm" and the fixed weight.

And the system of latching the pendulum arms together as shown at release of wheel is self setting, requires no energy. My hand in the vid covering the "pendulum" was not necessary, I was trying to hide something :)

What is shown is a single action of the release mech so that the arm or flail flies out under the effect of centrifugal force at the required point of rotation, not just when it feels like it.

The "machine" does that just once with no push at start, and that is enough to rotate the wheel anywhere between 3 and 5 times. Variable because once the "swing arm" is let loose to fly around under no control, it causes disturbance/braking.

So, if I show a vid where the pendulum arm is recaptured and I physically stop the machine at start position with all the parts in the place they were at start, that is "unity" . I don't stop it physically and it does another turn, that is overunity.

Correct ? Or wrong again :)

[axel]

Nic,

Next time, when you let go of your device, move far away from it and don't touch it, until it stops moving.

If you take another video, then we will all be in agreement that it doesn't work.

Axel

[Fletcher]

So, if I show a vid where the pendulum arm is recaptured and I physically stop the machine at start position with all the parts in the place they were at start, that is "unity".

I don't stop it physically and it does another turn, that is overunity.

Correct ? Or wrong again :)

Pre-set the device any way you want [providing there isn't a spring load in there somewhere storing potential energy] - make a latch that you can tip a lever or remotely control to release [even a latch on a timer] - do that, let it swing around & be captured by your latching mech again in the exact way it was before the start of the first demonstration revolution.

That is over unity because the machine has overcome frictional losses in the axle friction & air drag, for example N.B. but excludes latch release energy.

If that is the case why not build a machine that latches, releases, rotates, waits 2 seconds, latches, releases, rotates, waits, latches, releases, rotates, waits i.e. no accumulated momentum - you get the idea.

No hand intervention so its a controlled experimental setup with minimal chance of unintended inventor input [experimental error].

N.B. If there were objections to energy input to trip the latch & release then use something like a modified drinking bird mech to tip the latch & reset itself - nothing but solar input - or conversely have it run a timing wheel at the axle with a pin at the rim to trip the latch etc.

[DrWhat]

Why do you touch it at the end?

And if it rotates from scratch I assume the side with the round mass has more weight and will end up at the bottom eventually.

Please prove me wrong.

Nice demo though to determine basic principles/movements.

[DrWhat]

http://www.youtube.com/user/Inquorate#p ... p8UDxR0_SI

[Mark]

Nick - Having seen:
your last 3 videos http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=nicbordeaux#g/u
the link you posted on the "How Not to get a Reaction..." thread http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7BEOXzM7eg
and the double-square pendulum video that Dave (FWG2) refers to on that same thread http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXRXWy5KMgs
a question comes to mind..... if this principle was applied to a ratcheted axle, so that the axle will only turn in one direction; could the weight, length/area, pivot-point parameters be configured to create a 'system' that would reset itself?

FYI - Dave stated on the other thread that he had built a double-square pendulum, so this question is being repeated there, too.

[nicbordeaux]

Thx everybody for the input, that's what so great here -apart from the camaraderie- being able to bounce ideas around and get response from guys who can grasp the issues and aims :)

Fletcher : I'm a poor uneducated cowhand, I may have to print that out, but it looks like my reasonning.

Further explanation : the keel point is the deadweight at about 10 "o clock. That requires resetting so that it is at 12. In which case as the weight is moved CCW to 12, when the articulated arm passes 12 (on it's way to 6) gravity means the swing arm aligns in a folded in half position. Here it moves into the release mech and is captured in that position. Then the CCW push to start position continues until set swinging mech is at 6, and deadweight at 12. That is start position. The release or "escapement" mech is really rocket science : an elastic band around one of those bolts and hooked over the fixed arm to form a triangle cradle. The articulated arm falls into this elastic band setup naturally, no energy input required. On releasing the whole wheel, the arm flies out at around 1. I think it presses both ways against the elastic band, building up energy, eg it flies out a load faster than from gravity alone. CF is involved here too in a "big" way. I was planning on a once every two turns recapture, maybe one is better. The recapture device may or may not work, thingking two suitable strength and suitably positionned lengths of clock spring :)

So, at present state of development I'm "opensourcing" this to besslerwheel. com forum members.

Axel : agreed, will do.

Dr What : Touched it at the end to stop it. Might have done another turn otherwise. Yes, the keel position is round weight at 6. But after several turns. It's the initial tuen which is of interest, the way it gains speed. And does a full rotation. No other device I have built does a 360° without an initial push. Agreed, the seting is using up some energy, but not much more if at all that raising a single weight wheel from 6 to 12 for release position. Thx for the video link. Great work, I admire that. How about a bungee strap ? No kidding, looks like if you put a spring on there, one end to arm, other end prolonged by rope to wall, let enough slack so that only comes under tension at limited degress of arc...

Mark : Ratched axle ? use a bike singlespeed frewheel cog, drill tooth... I'll let you handle that one ? If you wish. As you say, the parameters need to be adjusted, and the funy thing is, although this gizmo seems to pack a bit of a punch, an ounce of and it won't work.

[nicbordeaux]

More vids, still hand release but repeated clearly, so no operator error. If the release had been a fishing line burnt with zippo you'd all be screaming "Heat !!!" :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IO-Ui6tmko
This is slo-mo, also you will want to turn speakers off, atrocious noise.
As you can see, latency increased rather than try and waste time reducing latency... Tommorow, next week, who knows, there will be a vid with a recapture mech. Nothing complex. Just so there is no argument about overunity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39il5nTCJgo
Somebody may see the significance of this one :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgHsk6AMZ94
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2Cwm9zfvw0

Sorry, these two are poor light, raining outside. If anybody wants to drag the things into a vid editor and play around light/contrast...

There is a lighter, clearer one I'll try to upload now. Youtube rejected it a little earlier...

This was the hard part, past 360° from OB and CF, prolonging latency rather than wasting time trying to cut it.

So, this is Money Time, if you want to be first with a working wheel, better hurry :)

EDIT : managed to upload a low res clearer vid : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDxlcko3imo

[Fletcher]

hmmm .. nick, the flail swings giving Cf's but you'll note that the flail never quite gets back to the vertical position again, in the same starting alignment & position - the flail oscillates allowing the system CoG to get progressively lower & lower & this is 'energizing' the rotation as it looses Pe just like a pendulum clock with hanging weights, IMO.

[DrWhat]

This is clever nick.

I think what is happening is that you have a wheel that is raised out of balance (energy IN of course).

Then once the swinging starts the wheel becomes in a sense more balanced, hence like a balanced wheel it will rotate several times as friction is low.

Once the turning stops the device is upside down yet skewed showing that it is not quite perfectly balanced.

But the transformation to a more balanced wheel, even during the dynamic movement is what keeps it turning. All based on the initial energy you inputted.

I would be interested to see if you can do more with this.

[rlortie]

DrWhat,

Once the turning stops the device is upside down yet skewed showing that it is not quite perfectly balanced.

It is my opinion by experience and in teachings that once the device stops it is in balance with itself and/or friction, no matter how skewed or disproportional it looks.

That is why COG is considered balanced or center of density no matter what the shape of the object may be, it always ends up in a vertical line directly below the axis.

Ralph