Post a picture of a poltergeist

[justsomeone]

Poltergeists wander freely through locked doors. ( from AP )

Please post a pic. of a poltergeist as it might have been visioned in the

1700's.

Thanks.

[greendoor]

AFAIK the definition of a poltergeist hasn't changed since then ... they have always been invisible.

[Denker]

Hi

maybe Bessler means Air as Poltergeist ?

Air is coming through locked doors, when he is leak... and make doors and windows knocking like a Poltergeist !

Bessler wrote in AP, that her organ builder knowledge was very helpful to build the Wheel...

on bottom of this page you can see a picture of an old air supply for an organ
http://www.die-orgelseite.de/funktionsweise_e.htm

maybe Bessler used a combination of bipedalism and organ-technology in his wheels.

[path_finder]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellows

[path_finder]

A very crazy idea...
A compilation of the pipe organ technology (the bellows) and the PM dream.
The wheel is full of bellows.
The weights are located at the end of the arms.
The bellows include some valves, closed within a particular timing.
There are also some mechanical ratchet on the inner rim of the wheel, acting at the right timing.
We suppose the wheel rotating clockwise.
During the descending phase (right side) the valves are closed and the weights compress the air inside the bellows, increasing the pressure (F=flat, L=low, M=medium, H=high).
When a bellow arrives at 6:00, the pressured air is discharged inside the precedent bellow.
At 7:00 the arm is liberated and the pressure eject upward the arm of the bellow, but here the ratchet is active and avoid the arm falling back (blue arrow).
The compressed bellows are acting like an intermediate power reservoir.
Some variations of this principle of operation can be applied.

Ivory Coast seems to be an incitative country for the creativity.
May be not so crazy?...
Can anybody justify why it will not work?

[AB Hammer]

path_finder

To much weight below and not enough action for the Bellows. So it will look like what you have drawn it but a little more clockwise about 30 degrees. You have to section them off to at least quarters.

Here is a worked up MT60 that I modified on this string.

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 5678#45678

[beapilot]

Path_Finder,

Very clever idea. I see it will not work because one weight needs to push air through several weights. A H bellow is being filled with air from one weight, the medium and slightly from the L and need to force air though the weights on top (bellows).

If you can keep the H bellows in its position stationary on a ramp and easily works upwards (which I can not see how), then you will have a PM.

Joshua

[path_finder]

Dear ABhammer,
Unfortunately I cannot read the link you mentioned (the site askes me for login, I'm logged yet, and after loggin again there is the same thing).
As an eminent blacksmith, for sure you know the bellows better than me.

Dear beapilot,
I have no particular idea how to let work this stuff.
It was just a bottle floating on the sea surface.
For sure we need some bellows communicating through valves or pipes.
But one interesting point is the dynamic behavior of this assembly (don't analyse it on a static point of view). Indeed the compression of the bellows introduces a slowing down effect on the right side wich is difficult for taking in account (there is a congestion of weights at 5:00, a source of overbalance).
I will try to think about more deeper.

[Fletcher]

Bellows might resemble a fan or peacock's perhaps ?

[AB Hammer]

path_finder

It works for me. Try the main link.

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... sc&start=0

[greendoor]

I doubt that Bessler was suggesting Air when he mentioned poltergeists. Air doesn't really pass through closed doors. Bessler with his church organ experience would be no fool regarding basic pneumatics. However, he may well have referred to Heat. Poltergeists allegedly create cold sinks. Allegedly the spirits suck energy out of our space in order to materialise or affect the physical realm.

I've wondered about bellows before - and ruled them out because they don't appear to fit with the main clues he left. However - maybe they could ...

I still believe that pairs of weights are involved, and that (depending on your translation) there is a 'force gain' derived from the motion of those weights. But what if pneumatics were involved ... an overbalanced mass could be used to apply force to a bellows ...

We tend to think in terms of compressing air. But what if we used the overbalanced force of gravity to pull a vacuum instead? What if we intentionally rarified a gas chamber - maybe with a refrigerant in it. This should create a cold sink, and ambient heat energy could flow in. Then when the applied force was released, the chamber would expand back to original size. However - with the additional heat input, it's going to expand to a slightly bigger size than original ... perhaps perpetuating the overbalance!

I think there is much merit in considering this possibility ... Heat Pumps show us that there are many kilowatts of energy available to flow into a system without us even being aware of a huge temperature difference ...

[PMG]

Its a furt.

[greendoor]

Furshnazzle.

[Ed]

Bessler specifically used the word poltergeist, and sound travels through solid objects. Although I don't know how far you will get analysing a rhyming metaphor out of context.

POLTERGEIST (Ger. for "racketing spirit"), the term applied to certain phenomena of an unexplained nature, such as movements of objects without any traceable cause, and noises equally untraced to their source; but in some cases exhibiting intelligence, as when raps answer a question by a code. In the word Poltergeist, the phenomena are attributed to the action of a Geist, or spirit: of old the popular explanation of all residuary phenomena.

But you might be intereted to read Six Selected Poltergeist Cases from the 1700s in Germany. (sorry, no pictures)

[Chad]

Gentlemen think what a poltergeist does and then try and relate to how it would work in a wheel.

a poltergeist is supposed to be something like a playful mischievous spirit/entity that moves objects.

so how would you move an object without touching it....as if a poltergeist had moved it?, Vibration maybe?, this would sure explain the reason for the noise his wheels made....and maybe wagner wasn't far out when he said something along the lines that besslers wheels made so much noise as to disguise the actual sound of the workings.

This would tie besslers work with pipe organs and resonance into the whole system nicely, and also he said something along the lines of, if you used pure reason to acomplish a working wheel you would pretty much fail.

Also dont forget that he also said something like that once an impressed force was used on the wheel that it would continue to rotate and never lose the momentum.

please dont bash me for the laking of actual quotes but iamb at work and cannot get to my files where my info is stored, il edit the post later if it causes to many problems.