First impressions about this forum

[niente]

Hi all,

I'm new to this Bessler forum. I found it quite interesting, but what disappointed me is the attitude of many members.

I try to explain better: I read many messages in which one claims to have found something, a model that works in simulation, a new maybe-working idea, etc...

But everyone of these guys, instead of sharing this knowledge, behaves in the same manner of Bessler. He fears that someone can steal his ideas and become rich. It doesn't matter that humanity could live in a better world, the only thing important for these guys seems fame and/or money.
It's pure egoism. And we saw where this way of behaving took Bessler and his invention. It was forgotten, and we live in pollution.

I hope there is someone reasoning different here, otherwise I really can't see the reason why all these "closed-mind" people are frequenting this forum, if they want to share nothing (to try to steal ideas one another? :( )

Take care.

(anyway it's only my point of view, sorry to all!!!)

[Trev]

Hi Niente,
Welcome to the forum. We are not all like that, there are 'give it all away and save the world' types here as well but maybe we are not as vocal.

Trev.

[JuddBrooks]

I second what Trev said!

[ovyyus]

Welcome to the forum niente. Trev is right, not everyone is like that. Sometimes it's a bit of a tough plod winding your way through the mess, but I think it will be worth it in the end. Nice avatar :)

[racer270]

well ya got your tree huggers and your hunters / gathers , best of luck choosing sides.......lol

[coylo]

Welcome Niente,
What you're talking about is something that is not unique to this forum but it inflicts invention generally. That's just the nature of invention. History is littered with lone inventors who excel on there own - people who don't like to take orders - that want to be their own boss, like me, and where would we be without them?
I would say that it's glory and not greed that drives most people here, and sure the money would be nice, but there is no fear worse than someone trying to claim unfair credit for your invention.
Therefore, I would not ask or expect anyone who feels they're close to something to reveal their design to me, even on the basis of failure looming because the idea could be salvaged into something else.

Another thing, buried in this forum is probably the best collection of PMM/gravity wheel attempts on the net, and I look forward to seeing some of your shared ideas.

I've seen initiative like this before, but rather than having a snowball effect, it dies off and fades away..................
I'm just tellin' it like I see it!

[SeaWasp]

First off.. Let me start by saying Welcome to the forum Niente!

I just want to say that it is a noble idea to share your ideas & concepts with members of this forum! There are members here who will selflessly share their ideas in the hope of just being recognised as the first to build a working wheel since Bessler! Others want to be recognised & rewarded for their efforts!

What's right & wrong can be argued both ways, but I am certain that if we all collectively, and unselfishly discussed our ideas, then the solution would have been discovered long ago! Presenting an idea into the public domain will nullify claims of copyright ownership, so do not be afraid of sharing your ideas!

I for one have been using this forum to expand my knowledge of Bessler and of the basics of gravity dynamics so that I can get up to speed with the cream of gravity wheel researchers that have or are still involved with this forum!, Their failures become my failures! I learn and progress from there!

Good Luck!

[AgingYoung]

Interesting points of view, Niente. I'm pretty sure that if someone had an idea that would cause a wheel to turn the idea would be taken and run with. As you speculate someone would make quite a bit of jack with it. That happens a lot. People that come up with an idea a lot of times get a mention in the encyclopedia once they're dead (if they're lucky) and in the mean time people that capitalize on the idea make a bloody fortune. That sometimes happens. Interesting you seem to be cool with that.

I'm touched by your concern for the environment and posterity. How do you get around? Do you ride a bicycle or horse? I know a lot of europeans walk or ride bikes. That's mostly because their governments tax the snot out of gas and it's expensive. Things are closer together there also. Short walks.

I joined this board out of curiosity yet I've recently been here a lot for 2 reasons. The first was to get ideas on how to capitalize on a wheel if I should be lucky enough to have figured out how to make one. The 2nd reason was to see if anyone was thinking along the lines that I was. So far I can't see that anyone is.

Gene

[Fletcher]

Hi niente,

You'll find this discussion board an interesting study of both gravity wheel concepts (usually past tense) & of human nature. Both are intensely interesting & full of flaws (sometimes).

That being said many ideas do make it to the public arena but usually when the author has developed them as far as he can go on his own.

The reason imo that many don't just 'blast away' & throw up anything & everything is that often some time after an idea conceptualizes then the holes begin to appear in the cooling down period sure to follow. These are not always obvious on paper but the inadequacies of design usually appear in the modeling & build processes.

By the time you realize your perhaps 'head smacking' mistake you're not necessarily so keen to share your new found wisdom with the world & a period of private wound licking follows. You might be well pleased with a little face saving circumspection b4 bursting into print. You may then try to politely give a 'heads up' or stear others away from similar potentially embarrassing & troubled waters by way of your contribution to their topic.

Most here are kindly disposed to valiant & honest attempts, with or without a PhD by your name, but are rather less enamoured with some claimants style of communication.

I take the view that 'necessity is the mother of all invention' & when the need is greatest then the level of cooperation will be exponential. Until the groundswell reflects this we will have to be satisfied with a less than perfect discussion forum. All the same, I think we are collectively forging ahead towards a solution albeit more slowly & more disjointedly than some might like.

Imo you won't know how you will react till you are faced with the real possibility of a working gravity wheel. Then all emotions will be sure to run the full gambit at once. You would hope for a steady nerve & sound head. May it be you :)

[ken_behrendt]

Welcome, niente...

I had to take exception when you wrote:

But everyone of these guys, instead of sharing this knowledge, behaves in the same manner of Bessler.

I have probably posted more designs on this Discussion Board than any other member and, at the time I was posting them, I fully believed that they might be "the" one that everybody here is looking for. All, so far, have failed, but I am not embarrassed by that. If one is not failing, then one is not trying. And, if one is not trying then he has zero hope of ever finding the secret of Bessler's wheels.

Personally, I am not convinced that a lot of money will be made off of Bessler's secret mechanism IF it is ever rediscovered. Why? Well, it has severe power limitations which, quite possibly, might not be overcome no matter how much the design is scaled up. Without a significant power output, his wheels would, unfortunately, remain mere curiosities or only find applications as toys or decorative items.

However, I am interested in the solution to the Bessler mystery simply because I would like to see this enigma resolved in my lifetime. Whether I do it or not is irrelevant to me. If I do do it, then whether I get rich off of it or not is also irrelevant to me. Yes, I'd probably make some money out of it, but I am really more interested in having my name written into the Bessler legend down through the centuries. Egotistical? Of course it is! That's why most inventors invent...aside from the money, they want to show the world how clever they are and, thereby, gain the love and respect of a grateful world. And, of course, one does not have to be an inventor to have such needs...

Anyway, once again, welcome to our Discussion Board. If you have a design that you want to share, then by all means do so and you will get excellent feedback on its possibilities from people who have thousands of hours of experience in the pursuit of these devices. If you want to keep your research secret, then that's fine too...the decision is yours to make. Many come here looking for new designs that, even if they are failures (100% so far!) will help stimulate their own creativity. And, who knows, maybe that process will lead to something someday that does work...


ken

[jim_mich]

Welcome, niente.

...remain mere curiosities or only find applications as toys or decorative items.

The 45 RPM record was first introduced as a 'toy'. A small almost indestructable vinyl record for children. Many of the first 45 RPM records were nursry rhymes and children's stories. They were very profitable.

The dunking bird became a very profitable toy.

[turulato]

Welcome to the forum niente:

And what would you do with the knowledge of a working design?
Give it away? To whom? Us?
What does an "open minded" person do?
I think a better question is not that this forum disappoints you but that if you will disappoint this forum :-)
Tell you what, I have posted some designs that have never being built and that in my mind should work. Send me an email and I'll send them to you to save you the trouble of digging them out. You build them to prove if they work and if one of them happens to work (or all of them) you can give it to the world and you don't even have to tell anyone were you got it from, you can claim it as your own.
So? Are you a talker or a doer?

What say you?

Turulato

[rlortie]

Niente,

THis makes the 12th response and welcome to the forum you have received since making your first post.

To keep the wheels turning I feel that it in now time for you to respond and let us know what path you are following and what are you willing to share.

You will find that the avid members here and are open to discussion and debate. I for one am the think-tank approach type person and am always open to discussion of new input.

Having just joined and making only one post leaves me to wonder if you are still out there or are we wasting our time replying to you.

So if you are still there, once again I say welcome.

Ralph

[graham]

Hi Niente, You started an interesting thread here ,thanks.
I have wondered what would happen if someone on this board presented a workable design and being a good soul shared it openly here on "Bessler Wheel .com"

He would be someone who did not seek fame or fortune for himself , just the pride and satisfaction of being the one who DID it ; and wanting to share this knowledge with other seekers here on the boards and eventually have it spread worldwide and unconstrained by patents .

What would prevent someone else from claiming this idea to be his own and patenting it for himself ?
Would the records here on Scotts server be enough to deny him a patent? Would forum members band together to support our kind and clever inventor??

Just some thoughts , do you have any ideas on this scenario ??

Graham

[Jonathan]

Welcome niente.
I do, graham. The idea is not the give it away instantly, you must prepare first. There are a number of ways to do it, but the simplest is probably to make a flyer, buy a big plot in a newspaper, and have them publish it. You'd have your name on it and a picture of the machine (hopefully simple enough to depict clearly); I don't see how someone, who didn't come up with the device, could make 'evidence' of having done so before the date on the newspaper. And in the process, the idea gets circulated to a bunch of people.