Hi,
playing with WM2D I found a wheel that can rotate without external input.
I think it's a problem of parameters I assigned to it, anyway may be interesting for someone.
I attach the model to this post ;-)
Can you tell me where's the mistake?
Strange self-running model
Moderator: scott
Strange self-running model
- Attachments
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- Image of model and graph of rotation speed
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- BS7.zip
- Working wheel - bad simulation parameters?
- (2.73 KiB) Downloaded 693 times
... and you still don't understand?
re: Strange self-running model
And this other machine (attached to post) really takes-off!!!!
I changed the rods connecting the external rim with a solid body, and the increase in speed is very much.
Probably I use wrong parameters, or it's a WM bug.... or what? :-0
I changed the rods connecting the external rim with a solid body, and the increase in speed is very much.
Probably I use wrong parameters, or it's a WM bug.... or what? :-0
- Attachments
-
- BS7c.zip
- Another strang WM model
- (2.78 KiB) Downloaded 1296 times
... and you still don't understand?
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ken_behrendt
- Addict
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- Location: new jersey, usa
- Contact:
re: Strange self-running model
niente...
I viewed the BS7 gif and downloaded the model you made. Yes, they do appear to be Running, but I do not see anything shifting about inside of them to cause the motion. Most likely, this is yet another "glitch" in WM2D that gives a false display of OU/PM. But, they certainly look interesting.
ken
I viewed the BS7 gif and downloaded the model you made. Yes, they do appear to be Running, but I do not see anything shifting about inside of them to cause the motion. Most likely, this is yet another "glitch" in WM2D that gives a false display of OU/PM. But, they certainly look interesting.
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
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JuddBrooks
- Enthusiast
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:29 am
- Location: Denver, CO. USA (visitors welcome)
re: Strange self-running model
Niente,
greeting from Denver, Co. USA. Great Pictures. Nice fresh ideas needed on this forum.
Save your files for posterity. If you make changes save as new name so you can keep these to go back to for reference.
Nice to see what looks like a running wheel.
On the second (2nd) one, I notice the value for the Blue bar is not a simple weight expression like all the rest of the model. I changed it to 1kg and wheel stops quickly. Did you make that value on purpose and if so what was your intent?
On the first one I notice that the property values(near bottom) of the rectangle on the left does not match the other 3. Again was this on purpose? Also 2 outer polygons on left match each other, but all 4 do not match. Again was this planned?
I see you have air resistance set to low. NICE. Most of us can not lay claim to seeing wm2d run a model with that setting.
I agree with Ken that you have hit a 'example' of where wm2d is not 'perfect' in all ways and not able to tell us the 'obvious' errors we make. BUT, it was great fun watching it run and looking for the 'flaw'.
How interesting a New memeber to the board gets it SOooooo Close so quickly.
Change just about anything on either one and it stops ( 'keels' ) pretty easily.
My compliments on your pictures, wm2d, and most of all to your "vision'.
Please continue to exceed all expectations. :)
Wishing you cointinued success.
Judd
greeting from Denver, Co. USA. Great Pictures. Nice fresh ideas needed on this forum.
Save your files for posterity. If you make changes save as new name so you can keep these to go back to for reference.
Nice to see what looks like a running wheel.
On the second (2nd) one, I notice the value for the Blue bar is not a simple weight expression like all the rest of the model. I changed it to 1kg and wheel stops quickly. Did you make that value on purpose and if so what was your intent?
On the first one I notice that the property values(near bottom) of the rectangle on the left does not match the other 3. Again was this on purpose? Also 2 outer polygons on left match each other, but all 4 do not match. Again was this planned?
I see you have air resistance set to low. NICE. Most of us can not lay claim to seeing wm2d run a model with that setting.
I agree with Ken that you have hit a 'example' of where wm2d is not 'perfect' in all ways and not able to tell us the 'obvious' errors we make. BUT, it was great fun watching it run and looking for the 'flaw'.
How interesting a New memeber to the board gets it SOooooo Close so quickly.
Change just about anything on either one and it stops ( 'keels' ) pretty easily.
My compliments on your pictures, wm2d, and most of all to your "vision'.
Please continue to exceed all expectations. :)
Wishing you cointinued success.
Judd
Looking for fellow inventors who want to share and go public (without patents/selling) to jointly develop a couple different bessler wheels :)
303.921.1554 cell anytime
303.921.1554 cell anytime
re: Strange self-running model
Certainly is a strange self running model! Can't see any shift in COG so I am wondering whether you may have inadvertanly altered some setting which is affecting it!
As I am writing this, I noticed that the setting, under "World" - "Preferences" - "Prevent model from running faster than real time" - was unchecked. Checking it, returned the model to a stationary object. One of the "momentum" settings for your rectangles was inconsistant with the others, and when I upped the accuracy settings and to display more warnings, WM2D did say that the top left rectangle and the centre square had "very high" "acceleration" settings and that this should be adjusted within the accuracy settings.
As I am writing this, I noticed that the setting, under "World" - "Preferences" - "Prevent model from running faster than real time" - was unchecked. Checking it, returned the model to a stationary object. One of the "momentum" settings for your rectangles was inconsistant with the others, and when I upped the accuracy settings and to display more warnings, WM2D did say that the top left rectangle and the centre square had "very high" "acceleration" settings and that this should be adjusted within the accuracy settings.
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Gravmaster2000
- Enthusiast
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:23 am
- Location: Just looking over your shoulder..
re: Strange self-running model
On the second (downloadable) model, the acceleration effect seems to be produced by the WEIGHT of the blue link bar. It it set to (something) -03 default. Set it heavier, the effect goes away (completely by .01) make it lighter (-05) and the effect is more pronounced. I would bet it is a rounding error somewhere. Note also, it does this with air resistance on!!
WEIRD! If it was only so easy....
niente, how did you come up with this odd configuration? Did it come to you in a dream or something? :*)
WEIRD! If it was only so easy....
niente, how did you come up with this odd configuration? Did it come to you in a dream or something? :*)
I hope to see something work soon-by someone!!
All hail Mighty Mouse! (Just don't get me angry!)
All hail Mighty Mouse! (Just don't get me angry!)
re: Strange self-running model
To JuddBrooks:
The blue bar was intentionally made very light to avoid wheel unbalancing. Other settings are definitely casual, I played a little with the model and suddenly it began to spin.
To SeaWasp:
Thank you for suggestions, I'll try to adjust parameters.
To Gravmaster2000:
This model is an incomplete wheel. I was building a model with springs and balls, but after building the main part (with AutoCad) and importing it in WM2D, I had this surprise.... a self-sustained running wheel!
At first I thought about a special weight distribution, then I realized there was something wrong with parameters...
The blue bar was intentionally made very light to avoid wheel unbalancing. Other settings are definitely casual, I played a little with the model and suddenly it began to spin.
To SeaWasp:
Thank you for suggestions, I'll try to adjust parameters.
To Gravmaster2000:
This model is an incomplete wheel. I was building a model with springs and balls, but after building the main part (with AutoCad) and importing it in WM2D, I had this surprise.... a self-sustained running wheel!
At first I thought about a special weight distribution, then I realized there was something wrong with parameters...
... and you still don't understand?
re: Strange self-running model
Gravmaster.. Just a silly question, but.. How do I set or where can I find the 'acceleration" setting for an object? I tried looking for this setting in the properties window but I don't have a clue which setting it is? I was trying to find out the "-03" default setting but had no luck!
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Gravmaster2000
- Enthusiast
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:23 am
- Location: Just looking over your shoulder..
re: Strange self-running model
Sea Wasp, click on the object you want to measure, click on 'measure' at the top of the screen, the list has a 'accceleration' setting for rotation, that should work.
I hope to see something work soon-by someone!!
All hail Mighty Mouse! (Just don't get me angry!)
All hail Mighty Mouse! (Just don't get me angry!)
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epistemologicide
- Aficionado
- Posts: 458
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 am
- Location: australia
re: Strange self-running model
gravity is a spiral flux..
forget computer simulations...
forget computer simulations...
re: Strange self-running model
Please, a question to some with good will:
do you know some thing about a program named SolidWorks?
Does it work well?
Thanks a lot!
Murilo SP nov/30
do you know some thing about a program named SolidWorks?
Does it work well?
Thanks a lot!
Murilo SP nov/30
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bluesgtr44
- Devotee
- Posts: 1970
- Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:31 pm
- Location: U.S.A.
re: Strange self-running model
Niente....the whole thing seems to have been drawn using polygons...these are unreliable in this program when used in this way. Also, the size of this contraption is mammoth, to say the least. And, yet it weighs next to nothing by comparison.
Try doing the same thing only using rectangles and squares and then attach the rods and see what happens.
Steve
Try doing the same thing only using rectangles and squares and then attach the rods and see what happens.
Steve
Finding the right solution...is usually a function of asking the right questions. -A. Einstein
re: Strange self-running model
Thank you, Rlortie!
Seens impressive.
I met a guy that sells draw service with this sw.
Not very expensive and may easily send fast working performances.
regs. M.
Seens impressive.
I met a guy that sells draw service with this sw.
Not very expensive and may easily send fast working performances.
regs. M.
Re: re: Strange self-running model
wow look at this anti gravity machine.....it looks like a spiral fluxepistemologicide wrote:gravity is a spiral flux..
forget computer simulations...
- Attachments
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the uneducated
if your gona be dumb you gota be tough
Who need drugs when you can have fatigue toxins and caffeine
if your gona be dumb you gota be tough
Who need drugs when you can have fatigue toxins and caffeine