Oxygons "Whiplash" Concept

[Oxygon]

I am so sick of the bessler curse...

I was digging thru my past good ideas an I am posting this for posterity regardless...

Its an extrapolation of a strange unintended effect that of itself was unimportant to the experiment I was conducting with a parallel line of magnets and a small steel ball on a clipboard...

The ball was supposed to have the momentum to rise up a ramp and back down an incline...

Some of you may remember this concept of mine...

Anyway the ball attained considerable momentum but was held in proximity of the closest point and I did notice several times as the ball left the guide and whipped back along the magnetic rail...

It only follows that if such a design was configured to completely enclose the ball into a controlled path as in the image included it would whip around the closest point and unto the opposing tracks proximity...

and continue to loop.... forever or until the field in the ball intereferes...

please entertain my concept...

comments... ???

[Oxygon]

So many views by members and no comments...?

I am not sure how I should take it...

Not even a disagreement yet, maybe I can goad on a response...

Sorry for the double posting... just was expecting some communication...

I would at least like someone to argue with... ...

[scott]

OK Oxy, I'll bite :-)

Well, to me this design looks like it suffers from the same problem that all other designs like it do. If the magnet is strong enough to pull the ball to one end, then it is also too strong to let it go to the other, so the ball will end up stopping somewhere in the middle.

I have not actually built it so that is just my opinion. But I'm pretty confident it is correct.

Keep those ideas brewing, though. One day who knows?

For example, there are a lot of interesting movements going on here: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/weblog_entry.php?e=12

Could one of those be combined with this one somehow?

Best,
Scott

[Oxygon]

Thank scott for a response...

I don't understand your position that it'll stop somewhere in the middle...?

As it fly toward the end (toward greater proximity to the magnetic bar) it rolls around the tip and over to the other side...

with enough momentum to be caught again in the field proximity of the other sides guide...

Its the momentum that throws the ball around and over the hill (around the end and past the greatest distance from the bar)...

Understand...

If you imagine the path unfurled you can see it will cycle itself...

the weight of the ball swings around the end and over the virtual hill...

back into another cycle it must continue...

p.s. I cant access the link you gave...(Blocked) and also, I cant start a blog unless I become a member of some bloggers group?

[Joel Wright]

Oxygon Have you considered angling the end of the ramp up as the ball approach's the stronger pull of the magnets.Perhaps ramp up and around as the ball approach's the strong side of the magnet.Also here's a link to a invention builder marketing company with free information.They seem honest but like everthing these days proceed with both eyes open and take their advice with more than a few grains of salt.It seems to me that the more a entity promotes the more likely its jive.Hype is just another word for BS.
link

[scott]

I cant access the link you gave...(Blocked)

When you are logged in you should be able to access that link. Please let me know if you still can't.
Thanks,
Scott

[rlortie]

Any one questioning how to raise a weight back to it starting level needs to click on Scotts above link. It will take you to his blog.

This thing is 12:54 minutes of nothing but pure innovation and is well worth the time. Not only is it interesting but I just about busted a gut laughing.

Ralph

[pstroud]

Oxygon,

Suggestion: Buy some magnets and run a physical test. The knowledge learned will be well worth the $40-80 and 4-8 hrs time.... There's no replacement for the knowledge received through physically testing an idea and the many options of its potential.

I run physical tests every other day in my shed on my latest wheel design. No test is a failure, they are all stepping stones to success and the investment is well worth the knowledge received!

Preston.

[rlortie]

Well said Preston, we have our quota of arm chair philosophers here. Nothing beats hands on experimenting.

As for this magnet thingy, there is an example in Scotts blog as stated above using magnets. A steel ball going around a horse shoe magnet then traversing the inside and back out again.

Anyone interested in oxygons experiment needs to watch it. I admit I was amazed to see the ball come back out of the internal radius.

Hang in there oxy!

Ralph

[Oxygon]

That video suprised you...?

I have been messing with magnets for years...

the effect "I saw" within my small experiments was a much stronger whipping around the corner than that... my magnetic attraction was all neodymium parallel poles... in a bar shape... the effect/pull was much stronger... the whip was fast and powerful... surely enough to whip around a corner...

heck you could use a coating of rubber to utilise a flywheel effect upon that part of the guide... that would use the gained force of the attraction to torsion the ball past the strongest point onto the other side... the dimensions would have to change but the basic method would remain...

but thats just my observation...

[Patrick]

Oxygon;
Your whiplash concept is a non-issue to anyone that has experimented hands-on with magnets; strong or otherwise. I will not waste your time to explain why the concept does work.

[Oxygon]

I assume you mean "doesn't work"

Patrick, thats such BS...

That response could be used as a rebuttal for the F/E field as a whole itself...

Please Patrick... waste my time...

[Fletcher]

Oxygon .. I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to represent here ?

Perhaps I'm superimposing to much of your last 'ramped drop away' design into this one.

I note that you say it is a plan view & the drawing says "flat surface" or some such, therefore I assume that the magnet & track are all flat & laying on a horizontal surface & there is no incline , ramp , drop away etc & this momentum was the extrapolated whiplash effect you conceived of ?

Just my thoughts if I have understood your drawing ..

A rolling steel ball should roll along the track confines until it is at its closet point to th magnet (where the flux is strongest). It rolls because of the torque created around the steel balls axis of rotation. If it were a rectangular shaped piece of steel would it slide along to the closer end ? Perhaps, if it were sufficiently lubricated, but I don't think so because there would be no center of rotation for the torque to be applied to & it would just pull it at right angles directly to the magnet.

Now I'm no expert with magnets etc but it would seem to me that as the steel ball rolls along the track it does so because of the greater flux in front of it applying greater torque to one side of the steel ball. When it gets to its nearest proximity to the magnet there is no greater flux ahead of it & the torque differential will cease. It will be stuck there imo.

I guess you are suggesting that the rolling ball will have sufficient momentum to overcome the 'stick point' & carry it around & beyond the corner (whiplash). The trouble is, as I see it, that the ball is held firmly against the track guide by the magnetic attraction which wants to pull it directly towards the magnet at right angles, therefore I can't at this stage see how it can gather any rolling momentum to have a whiplash effect at all.

Once again this is my best guess at what might happen & why, but someone who is well into magnets may have a better & more accurate explanation, gleaned from actual hands on experience ?

[Oxygon]

Yes this idea is different...

The image is an "above view" of a horizontal track...

I have noticed the whiplash effect myself first hand...

the ball is pulled toward the greater proximity toward the end...

at which point the ball being held by the closest point is swung around the tip and the momentum of the approach will carry it around the bend over the greatest distance and back along the magnetic track... ... ...

[Fletcher]

So ... you are suggesting that the steel ball rotates around its vertical axis i.e. the surface of ball is in contact with the guide track wall, & 'travels' along the guide to its closest proximity to the magnet (the tip). This action is somewhat like how a 'twister' travels across the country side, as an analogue.

When it reaches the end of the guide you believe it will have acquired sufficient rotational inertia & straight line inertia to provide 'escape' velocity ? Have you actually observed that it does achieve escape velocity & escape ?

I would imagine that the torque created by converging flux & guide track acting on a sphere shape, is very small, mainly because magnetic attraction force between point masses (contained within a sphere shape) & the magnet, is inversely proportional to the square of the distance. The mass distribution in a sphere (due curvature) takes the mass points further away from the flux, reducing the available torque imo.

The likely result imho, the ball moves along, spinning on its axis, in a controlled fashion never achieving escape velocity.