Wheel of Furtune! Well, perhaps not.

[KAS]

Check this one out guys

It's an old drawing of mine that works by utilising the static centre to transfer the weights to the opposite side through a a drilled shaft. the outer (rotating) wheel has a section in each segment desiged to trap the weight , releasing it into the shaft at the correct point in the rotation.

This of course only works in one direction so a Bessler it is not.

There have been many variations on this theme but you will have to forgive me as this one was drawn years ago without prior knowledge of the others.

Well! should I keep my day job?

[ken_behrendt]

KAS...

Well, it's a nice design, but probably will not work. If you build it, then you will find that it has an equilibrium position that places 8 balls on the horizontal diametical ramp and the other 5 below the axle in the pockets on the rim.

ken

[Fletcher]

KAS .. imo, as you've drawn it, the mech will have a natural keel position where it reaches & stays at the lowest level of potential energy for the system. If you start it 'one end high' as shown, the mech will rotate & almost reach to the vertical height needed to transfer the ball into the transfer pipe, but not quite, due losses to the system. You tend to find that the torque graph (if you plot it) is similar to a sinusoidal shape of positive & negative torque with the keel position being zero torque in the middle.

If you do a search (google it or use this boards search function) for Jan Rutkowski http://astrosa.com/jan/default.htm you will see that he built many designs based on similar ideas of lateral transference. He even claims his work.

[KAS]

Thanks for you views people.

After studying the witness statements of the eminent characters that observed Bessler's device, I firmly believe that it is this design however that mostly resembles their accounts, and that free transference as apposed to pendulum was answer to the problem.

LetÂ’s observe the similarities:

All accounts refer to 8 weights per revolution. I believe that they did hear 8 compartments being utilised. However, because of Bessler's obsession with secrecy, it is very possible that more weights were in the process of transference.

Johann Wolff wrote;
“During rotation, one can clearly hear the weights hitting against the wooden boards. I was able to observe these boards through a slit. They are slightly warped”

Warped or curved sections are evident in my proposed design.

Fischer wrote;
At every turn of the wheel can be heard the sound of about eight weights, which fall gently on the side toward which the wheel turns.

The clue here is “Gently”. This indicates that the drop of the weights were short, again as in the proposed design.

“Machine made scratching noises, as if parts or poles moved over one another”.

This indicates to a rack or shaft containing a row of weight that rolled against each other.

Ok, the axle was mentioned as turning with the device which rules out a static core but it is possible that a rack or rail containing a row of weights could be balanced and counter balanced internally on the axle.

A problem occurs however, when the wheel is rotated in the opposite direction. It simply doesnÂ’t go both ways.

[KAS]

If you start it 'one end high' as shown, the mech will rotate & almost reach to the vertical height needed to transfer the ball into the transfer pipe, but not quite.

Fletcher, I've just had a thought.

What if the small amount of energy needed to complete the rotation (above) was stored in the steel spring as mentioned in one account of Bessler's device. After all, he was a clock maker who by definition are experts in storing energy in springs and releasing a small amount when it was needed.

If this were the case, a wound or tensioned spring periodically releasing a tiny amount of its stored energy would last for a considerable length of time.
If given enough time to set up his demonstrations, he could have tensioned any number of internal springs designed to release energy over weeks or months.

If this indeed was the case, it would reveal him as a fraud which would also explain the level of secrecy he maintained.

I still like to believe he achieved it though. It's my chimera.

[ovyyus]

“Machine made scratching noises, as if parts or poles moved over one another”.

Hi KAS and welcome to the forum. You gave a reference for the other quotes you used, yet you left the reference for the above quote out. Why?

[Fletcher]

All interesting observations KAS. Bessler says something like "yes, it has springs, but not used in the way you might think" or at least that was the impression of his statement from memory. I think the witnesses heard the spring being "let go" when JB was reinstalling the weights after viewing, of his bi-directional wheel.

Personally I think that JB did have opposing mech systems in the bi-wheels but here my thoughts are different from others here. I believe the wheel turned in either direction but that the mech forced to go backward continued to follow its predetermined path of operation (whether forward or backward) except the weight which was part of the mech was detached & parked in a neutral position so that it couldn't provide negative torque against the direction of rotation. I don't believe that the entire mech was latched into a neutral position per se, that's not logical in my book.

The spring sound was imo a spring loaded attachment system associated with the detaching (parking) & latching of the weights until ready to be used to create torque in combination with their mech & in the right direction.

Edit : Additionally, although springs could be used to store energy for later release to 'tip' the system, there appears to be a problem with this idea.

1. JB's long duration test. If springs were used in the manner you suggest then that imply's to me that all you had to do was inject a one-off additional energy source into the system (i.e. pre-cock the spring) & thereafter it could reset itself continuously, even after normal losses.

2. JB's wheel could do not insignificant work which drew energy from the system. So the springs would not only have to provide enough energy to tip the system but would have to reset themselves & produce energy for work as well which seems unlikely on their own.

[KAS]

“Machine made scratching noises, as if parts or poles moved over one another”.

Hi KAS and welcome to the forum. You gave a reference for the other quotes you used, yet you left the reference for the above quote out. Why?

Ovyys,

This stetement is documented on the main Bessler Wheel website but as the writer may have forgotten to include the quotee.

[jimmyjj]

Just a thought

"I was able to observe these boards through a slit. They are slightly warped”

Would not Bessler the fine craftsman that he was have been aware of this slit and if so the curved warp board's may have been placed there as bait for the villainous scoundrels attempting to rob him of his secret.If the boards were balanced surely they would not be robbing the machine of much power.

Sneak a look throught the slit and you may well be seeing a false lure.
How many slits were theyre?

Of course maybe Bessler was not aware of the slit and theyre truely were warped boards.

Anyways it was just a thought.

Jimmy

[ovyyus]

KAS, without knowing the reference how can you trust the quote?

Jimmyjj, perhaps slit/s were necessary in some way?

[digitaljez]

“Machine made scratching noises, as if parts or poles moved over one another”.

Hi KAS and welcome to the forum. You gave a reference for the other quotes you used, yet you left the reference for the above quote out. Why?

It is from Scott's clues section of the site and is accredited to - many eyewitness accounts

[ovyyus]

...accredited to - many eyewitness accounts

Can you name one?

[John Collins]

I checked and KAS is right it does say that and it does credit it to many eyewitness accounts. I think the quote is slightly wrong because although I remember the 'scratching noises' bit, I can't remember the 'parts or poles moved over one another'. I'll check my notes and get back on this.

jimmyjj makes a good point about the slits. Bessler must have known about them and bearing in mind his determination not to give anything away, one could conclude that either there was nothing to see that would give anything away, or it was a deliberate diversionary tactic designed to mislead.

John Collins

[Michael]

John,
In your first book you have supplied a quote from someone ( can't remember who ) that said that Bessler charged a fee that allowed people to take a look inside at a part of the working wheel. Makes sense that the undisputed slit was this viewing portal.

[ken_behrendt]

Bessler's early one-directional wheels did not have drums covered with oiled cloth. Rather, their surfaces were concealed with a veneer of thin strips of wood that were nailed to the drum's radial support members.

Perhaps due to slight torsional warping of these strips along their lengths, gaps of a fraction of an inch would have appeared at various locations on the drum's face. However, we must remember that the interior of the drum would still have been pitch dark.

I think that Wolff was able to view a tiny portion of the wheel's interior through one of these slits that formed. My problem with Wolff's observation is that I do not believe one can determine if an impact board inside of the dark drum was warped lengthwise by merely seeing it through a gap in the veneer strips that may only have been an eighth of a inch wide.

Perhaps Wolff was describing some other property of the boards that the weights were impacting against. It would have been nice if some other references to what was seen through the slits had been reported by other eyewitnesses. By comparing the different descriptions we would gain a more precise understanding of what Wolff meant by "warped".


ken