Gravity as a conservative force

[Fletcher]

Tom .. gravity as far as I know is at its maximum force at the earths surface given that the earth is an obloid so there are minor variations around the circumference. At the equator gravity attracts you to the surface but there is a minor offset by Centrifugal Force wanting to levitate you up. This is due to the earth being curved & moving away beneath you so it would appear you are rising. At the poles you weigh slightly more than at the equator because there is no CF's to contend with.

Therefore as you drop in your imaginary hole right thru the earth 3 things would happen. As you move closer to the center of the earth you start to have a greater proportion of mass above you & less below you so that the gravitational force becomes weaker i.e. the acceleration due gravity is decreasing because the mass above & below you are competing to attract you. This becomes zero at the center of the earth IINM.

The 2nd & 3rd things to happen is that the pressure will increase dramatically as will the temperature. The air pressure increases because of the column of air above you which now extends to the centre of the earth. This air pressure will cause a further braking on your terminal velocity.

The likely outcome is that you would slowly come to a stop at the dead center. You probably would be crushed by the pressure & incinerated by the high temperatures long b4 you got there without a protective environment around you.

[ken_behrendt]

Until further experimentation confirms otherwise, I am going to go on assuming that a gravity field "expands" at the velocity of light as do other field effects.

I liked Graham's mentioning of the tv show when he said:

They envisioned that if the sun were to suddely disappear, a loss of its gravitational pull would emanate like a wave moving at the speed of light . Mercury first, followed by Venus and then Earth etc etc would one by one fly off into space .

This is also what I think would happen if we had some sort of incredible matter teleportation technology that could allow us to instantly remove a stellar sized object from its location and move it to another location.

In actual reality, I suspect that when a star suddenly explodes, the innermost terrestrial planet's orbiting it are initially fried by the "prompt" radiation given off by the blast. But, as long as their orbits are outside of the expanding surface of the super nova, they scorched remains will continue to feel their normal pull toward the center of the location of the former stable star since the CG of the expanding stellar mass is still located there. However, once the expanding boundary surface of the super nova engulfs their orbit, the planets will either be completely vaporized or, should they survive, they will begin to feel less and pull toward the former location of the star's core as more and more stellar material expands out past their orbit.

However, I can envision a scenario where, even though a system's star has turned super nova and exploded, the outer planets of the system will continue to orbit normally since all of the star's expanding stellar matter is still within the orbital radii of the outer planets. However, over time as the stellar matter expands past these outer planets, even their orbits will begin to expand and they will, eventually wander off into the depths of interstellar space. Perhaps it is even possible for them to be captured by the stars of neighboring systems as they go into highly eccentric orbits about those stars or even "skip" from star system to star system in search of one to take up some sort of stable orbit in. Heaven help any inhabited planet in one of those systems that these "rogue" planets collide with!

I look forward to the day when we can artificially generate a gravity field or artificially cancel the effects of a natural gravity field.


ken

[Michael]

Wikipedia has a good article on gravity waves. It is believed that gravitational radiation travels at the speed of light.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_waves

[Michael]

Since some of us are posting ideas on what we think gravity is for a few years I have thought that gravity is universal entropy. This seems perfect to me, it gives the cause and the effect and offers insights into other dynamics of the universe.

[murilo]

-Waves of gravity should allways follow to bodies in travel or movement, and nothing else.
If a body explodes, every particule will take its share of original total gravity atraction.
-Gravity is 'already there', since it is like an *aura* around all bodies at any size.
-It's intensity effect is according to that 'square of distance' law.
-How *would* be measured 'gravity waves'? Nothing but a kind of weight measuring, a fixed balance that will accuse to weight free oscilations. Not a big deal. Possibely this device could detect to some 'relief' or bigger pull, if two or more gravity fields reacts.
- Entropy? I would like to know what Mike thinks...
regs. M. SP aug/02

[Michael]

- Entropy? I would like to know what Mike thinks...
regs. M. SP aug/02

Hi Murilo,
That's a lot that can be commented on, a big bone that can be chewed on for contemplation as well. To put it simple for now.
The way I see it there is a hierarchical order. (1a) Sitting near the top is difference. There is no need to validate difference, it is validated every time you can walk from one end of the room to the other. (1b) Difference, generates symmetry. Both dynamic and static symmetry. (1c) Symmetry rules everything. (2) Symmetry consists of all values within a defined system. The whole, is greater than the sum of the parts so to speak. Gravity, is symmetry. Entropy, is the tangible aspect of symmetry.

Some allegories, only as they apply to the above paragraph for you to meditate on.

(1a,b,c,) Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
(2) My fathers house has many mansions.

[Jon J Hutton]

Wow Michael....far out and cosmic....sorry couldn't resist.

I wonder if there will exist some day a velocity chart of the forces the same way we have a frequency chart of wave propagations.....How many forces exist between the speed of light and the speed of gravity that we have not discovered yet.

JJH

[murilo]

Michael, thanks for the bright lights you sent over my mortal ignorance.
You should be a typical politic.

>>> Which came first, the chicken or the egg? <<<

I would say they may come together, in the same plate, if you know how to ask for!
regs. M.

[Michael]

Well, I don't know if that's sarcasm in the replies but I'm being sincere in the content I posted.

Jon frequency charts of wave propagations are symmetrical structures so I'd love to finally see one day a chart of symmetry ( point # 2 ) that contains all values and how they interact together, if that's what you mean and I think it is. The holy grail of physics basically - the unified field theory. Containing as you mention, unrealized forms of symmetry. I think Jung was close in getting to unrecognized forms of symmetry with his intuition of syncronicity.

To clarify what I first wrote since gravity is the universes weakest force, yet it is also the largest over area, it is the dynamic universes final entropic state. This isn't all that brought me to this conclusion but it sums my thoughts on it pretty clearly.

[John Collins]

I liked your definition Michael, 'gravity is universal entropy'. Entropy has different definitions but I like '1. A measure of the dispersal or degradation of energy. 2. A measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system'. I never thought of the universe as a closed system but of course it is.

If you subscribe to the 'big bang' theory of the start of the universe, it began with one tiny blob of matter which contained everything in the universe. This 'blob' then exploded and it's contents is still expanding outwards from the initial point. It seems to me that for the universe to have been contained in one small point in a vacuum, all the forces in existence must have held it together and then at some point the cohesion was disrupted and the expansion began. That force which did contain the universe is still trying to bring everything back to a small point and that is what gravity tries to do. It is the force of attraction which tries to bind every point of mass to its closest neighbour and the bigger the mass the harder it tries to bring things together. If the expansion ever runs out of steam, gravity will begin to pull everything back to its original state of one small point.

Is that really entropy? Or does entropy go into reverse at the point where expansion stops and things begin to recompress?

So what is gravity? Is it the force which tries to bind everything together.

EDIT Gravity resisted the expansion after the big bang and is still resisting it.

John Collins

[docfeelsgood]

within the past month on the pbs , tv channel they showed a movie on gravity . they explained the theory and mathmatical equations for it . quite interesting . gravity theory has been solved of what it actually is and scientificaly explained . i think copies of the movie are available through pbs.org for $20.00 US. Doc.

[docfeelsgood]

nova physics, the elegant universe and beyond . from pbs.org for $39.95 US , on four dvds.

[John Collins]

I found this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemometer and I thought it an interesting adjunct to my previous comments.

An anemometer is a device for measuring the velocity or the pressure of the wind, and is one instrument used in a weather station. The term is derived from the Greek word "anemos" meaning wind.

The first anemometer was invented by Leone Battista Alberti in the 15th century.

The simplest type of anemometer is the cup-anemometer, invented (1846) by Dr. John Thomas Romney Robinson, of Armagh Observatory. It consists of three or four hemispherical cups, mounted one on each end of a pair of horizontal arms, which lie at equal angles to each other. A vertical axis round which the cups turn passes through the center of the arms; a train of wheel-work counts up the number of turns which this axis makes, and from the number of turns made in any given time the velocity of the wind during that time is calculated.

The cups are placed symmetrically on the end of the arms, so it is easy to see that the wind always has the hollow of one cup presented to it; the back of the cup on the opposite end of the cross also faces the wind,
but the pressure on it is naturally less, and hence a continual rotation is produced; each cup in turn as it comes round providing the necessary force. The two great merits of this anemometer are its simplicity and the
absence of a wind vane; but if used without electronic data logging equipment it is not well adapted to leaving a record of the actual velocity at any definite instant, and hence it leaves a short but violent
gust unrecorded. Unfortunately, when Dr. Robinson first designed his anemometer, he stated that no matter what the size of the cups or the length of the arms, the cups always moved with one-third of the velocity
of the wind. This result was apparently confirmed by some independent experiments, but it is very far from the truth, for it was later discovered that the actual ratio, or factor as it is commonly called, of the
velocity of the wind to that of the cups depends very largely on the dimensions of the cups and arms, and may have almost any value between two and a little over three. This had the result that wind velocities published in many official 19th century publications were often in error by nearly 60%.

Interesting that a type of Savonius wheel was invented back in the 15th Century by Leon Battista Alberti, the use of cup-shaped vanes predated Savonius by a few hundred years. Since wind speed, and pressure can be measured, as can the speed of falling objects and their weight, that too matches my wind analogy and my belief that wind can also be considered as a conservative force.

John Collins

[Wheeler]

docfeelsgood

Can you explain?

gravity theory has been solved

It seems that if this is true, Besslers Wheel should be an easy find.

[Jon J Hutton]

John C.

Sorry can not resist to ask....how your build is going and do you have anything to report.

JJH