BesslerWheel.com

[Michael]

Damm-so sorry, from my earlier post I typed in M.T. 135-and that should have been M.T. 142. I was misreading something. Anyway have a look. Stewart do you see the finer things?

Mike

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meChANical Man.
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"All things move according to the whims of the great magnet"; Hunter S. Thompson.

[Stewart]

Hi Michael

I'm not sure what I'm seeing in those circles - only what appears to be a fixed cross with a rocking bar resting on them with a small weight (solid?) at one end and a larger weight (hollow?) at the other. The weights and bar on one side are mirrored with large weights facing outwards, but the crosses aren't mirrored. The right side of the balance beam appears lighter than the left. What do you see that makes you think this is it?

All the best
Stewart

[Stewart]

Hi Michael

[Michael]

Hi Stewart,


> I'm not sure what I'm seeing in those circles - only what appears to be a fixed cross with a rocking bar resting on them with a small weight (solid?) at one end and a larger weight (hollow?) at the other.


I believe the larger "hollow" weight- is actually representing the gear on 143. The scale is the same as the weight-gears on that page.

>I'm not sure what you mean - are you talking about the two braces that keep the arm with the circles on perpendicular to the beam?

It's actually attatched to the brace on the left. Also, my feeling is that they just look like braces, but are also diamond jacks themselves. Anyway what I was originally talking about is very faint-on the brace. The smallest lever (three levered jack) has a rectangular bracket on it. Possibly where a spring attatches. But what does this spring feed? There's the question. There are a few VERY faint things on that page. My idea currently is that there is a threefold rotation occuring. Looking at this, do you start to intuit what I mean? I say intuit-because not everything is shown.

Sincerely,

Michael

[Stewart]

Hi Michael

[Michael]

Unfortunately I can't post a pic. I am not hooked to the net, I use the library, and a friends computer. Look also at the stand, there is a movement arc. It seems to me that the stand is actually an axel, so this is a part of the threefold movement. It looks like there are somethings he didn't mind showing (if this is it) and others very faint, so he would see it but others would miss it, and still more info he left off that was too dangerous (possibly). I'll look again at the area in question and see if I can describe it a bit better.

Thanks,

Mike

[Michael]

Hi Stewart,
Okay, look closely on the left hand side. The weight and gear attatch to the arm (if that is a weight and gear-or pulley perhaps). The arm is bolted to another arm, but I think it's really a pivot point. It looks like there is a 45 degree bracket supporting it, and if that's the case it wouldn't pivot. But follow the left hand side of the bracket, and you'll see it's actually a jack that terminates near the end of the arm. look very closly, you'll see it go up and down, and the last segments (there are only three) are smaller than the main one. It leads me to believe this isn't a bracket, but a compression jack system that works on either side. The left side shows it as being a possible compression system. If you count the number of pivots starting at the weight-gear/pulley, there are four. The weight-gear/pulley, on it's arm which rotates to the next arm with the jack/s, which rotates the main arm, which also rotates- and only half of it shows.

Mike
DOAH! Sorry that should be a four pivot system.

[Jonathan]

I clearly see two brackets. It's a little iffy on the left, but on the right it is plain as day. To tell the truth I really don't see anything interesting about MT142, maybe if I could make out the structures inside the circles, but beyond that I don't.
EDIT
I just had a thought, what if the circles with structures inside aren't? What if the structures are there, but the circle is the path traced out by one of the blobs inside, kind of like the dotted lines on MT143? It's not clear to me why you would have only half a flipper-flopper there though.

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Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.

[Stewart]

Hi Michael

Thanks for trying to explain in more detail - still can't see it yet, but I'll keep trying. I thought the attached image might be useful to help rule out things that are on the other side of the page - hope it helps. I think you're right about the stand itself pivoting - it looks like there is a very faint dot in the base - if so then this could be the center of the wheel. I also now think there are rings around the small "weights" (see attachment).

red = MT135 on back of page
Green = fairly sure it should be there
Blue = not sure it should be there

While creating the last image I've noticed a few other things. I'll post more later.

All the best
Stewart

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[Jonathan]

I see some more stuff, is it really there or am I imagining it? The colors are random, only trying to differentiate objects. Is the yellow thing a joint? Why would MT142 be drawn with these parts so small, how could anyone have figured out anything from it, even when the pictures were new? (Save Steward's 1st drawing and mine and compare bumps to colors to see how I came to this conclusion).

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[Stewart]

Hi Jonathan

Yes, I spotted that line (orange on your picture) too. I'm not sure about the other ones though. The almost horizontal line (blue on your picture) could possible be a mistake as this is a rough drawn picture. Have a look at the attachment. I'm now fairly sure that the long arm I've shown exists and that there is a circle/weight on the end (although the circle is slightly smaller than shown). Not sure about the dashes (blue). I think the large circles are in fact spheres that contain water - the water line is shown in blue (orange line on your picture). The circle inside the sphere could be a float. The small circle with dot in middle is the pivot point. The crosses are stops/rests. What do you think?
When Bessler hand-drew this picture it was probably quite clear - the parts aren't that small really. The problem is that this page has deteriorated quite badly in places.

All the best
Stewart

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[Michael]

I guess I should have said that I thought the circles were trace lines made by the weight/gear shift-movement. I also see (possibly) other indications of weights, but without showing the arm/s in that area.

You know the compression jack on the toy page? The one that the segments get smaller and smaller? Imagine it cut in half, with only three segments. That's what I see. It is faint, as I say, but I see it. Can anyone else see what I am seeing?

Jonathan, I have to disagree about M.T. 143. Although the drawing looks sloppy (or was MADE to look sloppy) if you look on the right hand side paired weights you'll see that the center's of gravity, shown by the termination lines at the end of the trace path, align EXACTLY on the horizontal- to the centers of the gears. = Balance. But not on the other ones. The termination lines are higher, starting where the gears connect,= movement.


Mike

P.S. Can someone send in an enlarged pic of the lower left hand corner of 142, where the circle is-and a bit of the area surrounding it, and i'll try to show you what I mean. Perhaps twice the size of the one you sent in of the whole image Stewart?
Thanks.

[Stewart]

Hi Michael

Wow - how weird is that! We both just posted our 100th post at exactly the same time (9:24pm)! Congratulations on becoming a fellow devottee - it's now official, we have no life! :)

All the best
Stewart

[Michael]

Stewart!
HA
ha ha, A toast- CHEERS MATE!

Michael

[Jonathan]

You are completely right Steward. Judging by the clarity of the apparently useless thing that looks like a right angle triangle, hypotenuse to the left, with horizontal lines in it, at about 5 o'clock in the picture, it is likely that the vast majority of the dots and dashes on the page aren't supposed to be there, so I think my orange thing and the second axle like thing aren't supposed to be there.
I think the cirlces were probably cylinders, not spheres, just for ease of construction.
Now if I'm visualizing this device correctly, it seems to me that those long arms will maintain the same orientation relative to the outside, without using a solid connection to the outside as the parallelogram device does. Further because of this, the placement of the X shaped struts that are probably stoppers will determine at what position of the whole device that the arms will stop maintaining their position relative to the outside. This is way easier than coming up with a way to engage/disengage a parallelogram device, as Michael has suggested, and yet has the same results. The only trouble would be to design the device so that the joint doesn't leak.
I still disagree Michael, on one side he managed to draw the endpoints at horizontal, on the other he didn't. You'll notice that on MT142, the line that Steward thinks is a water line is in fact not horizontal, but quite close. I now think that it is water, and the fact that it's not acting exactly like water makes me think that it just wasn't that well drawn. On MT143, it should have been glaringly obvious to him that the flipper-floppers were drawn too big for the stand when the dotted lines pass right by the horizontals. In fact there was no reason for them to be drawn that big since there is an enlargement of them shown about the device.