perpetual motion page!! with one solved!!

[epistemologicide]

hi all, i hope every one hasent seen this page yet i searched through alot of posts, and couldent find it

please forgive me if you all have seen it.

http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/5832/

the solved one? is here
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/5832/perpet2.htm

[epistemologicide]

this looks interesting but

http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/5832/perpet4.htm


is It a question of definition: The ideal power to be produced by the turbines equals the power needed to pump the water in the other direction. (lossless working turbines, etc....?)

Either you utilize the energy again with your turbines and then the balance is zero again or you use something else and this must be calculated two-ways also. possibly alll over all the author has documented that there a flaw in his turbine formulas - nothing else?

[jim_mich]

This one looks like it might really work.

Code: Select all

(assume a 16 hour clock
Hr   Cosine x Radius = Torque
 1   0.3827 x 0 =   0.0000
 2   0.7071 x 0 =   0.0000
 3   0.9239 x 2 =   1.8478
 4   1.0000 x 2 =   2.0000
 5   0.9239 x 2 =   1.8478
 6   0.7071 x 0 =   0.0000
 7   0.3827 x 0 =   0.0000
 8   0.0000 x 1 =   0.0000
 9  -0.3827 x 1 =  -0.3827
10  -0.7071 x 1 =  -0.7071
11  -0.9239 x 1 =  -0.9239
12  -1.0000 x 1 =  -1.0000
13  -0.9239 x 1 =  -0.9239
14  -0.7071 x 1 =  -0.7071
15  -0.3827 x 1 =  -0.3827
16  -0.0000 x 1 =  -0.0000
                ------------
Total rel. torque = 0.6682

[Jonathan]

I have investigated that one, it doesn't work. It has a net torque in the position shown, but I think it finds an equilibrium quickly. I think model 9 is interesting. I'm not sure if that is the right number, I can't check as the site seems to have crashed. It is the one with pendulum, magnets, and a ball.
EDIT
It's back up. It is number 9. Number 13 doesn't even make sense, the end gears are shown going the wrong way. (I had to highlight the picture in order for it to be visible).

[jim_mich]

I just did a calculation using 1 degree increments and got about the same results. There could be something I'm not seeing?

The RainForest sight has sent more bytes than the owner has payed for, so Geocities shuts off access to that sight until the next day or the owner coughs up more cash. Geocities sucks. Do a Google search and see if you can pull up the cache copy of the site from Google.

[Jonathan]

Maybe, are you including the weights that are on the horizontal as part of the calc? They aren't adding any torque, they are exerting all their weight on the horizontal part. It should be done like this, where the white areas are the areas of interest:
Also, I didn't clarify what I knew, that if you go the index page, you find that the list of PMM are supposed to be like riddles, and if you solve them the guy gives you a beer. By solved I think someone proved to him that it doesn't work.

[racer270]

if you put a gide plate on the left side that doesent have a lot of drag??????

[jim_mich]

Bearings can prevent most drag. Or there could be latches. The flat across the top would accelerate the weight. The bottom flat would decelerate the weight.

It seems like I've seen this before? Of course the best place to hide something is in plain sight!

[Jonathan]

Jim seems to have logged off, I thought he would post this, but it turns out that though he took into account the lack of torque from weights on the horizontals, he accidentally made an incorrect assumption when making the program, and the device in fact doesn't work.
I still think #9 is interesting.

[Gravmaster2000]

Number 9, as shown, takes more energy out of the ball when it exits
the magnet track than when entering, since it is closer.
What if the magnet supports were shaped exactly like the
wanted/expected path of the ball-Each magnet was the same distance
from it as it rocked up? If the ball(weight) is enclosed with 2 more
runners above it, the magnets could acually "lift" the pendulum?
Very neat....

Viper "Still hissing after all these years"

[Jonathan]

That is a neat idea! It occurred to me too, just today, that it leaves closer to the magnets and so should leave slower. However, you are probably right, if you do the math correctly you could predict where to put the magnets so that as the pendulum swings the ball never gets closer to the magnets. That way, no work is actually done by the magnets, because they don't move the ball through any distance, merely exert an upward force to reduce its apparent weight.
I'd like to build a model, but I'm working on several things now, and K'nex aren't conducive to the smoothness needed by the ball, unless I built it quite big (the plate the ball rolls on being a foot in diameter). It occurs to me that I have some aluminum sheeting, maybe I'll get a chance this weekend.

[Neo]

Guys you've seen this idea or one very...very much the same...


" Finsrud "


somewhere in the posts is a link to a video of Finsrud's PMM look at it carefully you will notice the similarities.

[Jonathan]

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if that is part of how it works. But Finsrud's device is so complex, it has 10,000 different things happening, while I think that the very simple idea at that website would work without all the complexity.

[PIMAN]

Finsrud designed his machine with a familiar design we all know so well. If you look closely at this top down sketch of the Finsrud device, you will see a familiar old friend. The same general pattern found in the Bessler woodcut shape. There's is a secret to be learned from the triangle in the circle, me thinks. You can also find this shape throughout alchemical art and in crop circles. Interesting, at least. Magical, at best.


http://www.galleri-finsrud.no/sider/mob ... ing03.htmlhttp://www.levity.com/alchemy/amclglr23.html
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/amclglr2.html
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/amclglr13.html
http://home.hetnet.nl/~zefdamen/Reconst ... 2001en.htm
http://home.hetnet.nl/~zefdamen/Reconst ... hill30.jpg

[epistemologicide]

speaking of shapes triangles...


dont know why the idea just poped into my head, but what about also buckminister fuller http://www.bfi.org/designsc.htm

could perhaps any of his awareness help in this whole process?