Asa Jackson's Perpetual Motion Wheel

[epistemologicide]

any one bought this thing yet?

http://home.tampabay.rr.com/sccinfo/asawheel.htm

. The book and CD are packaged together and sell for $29.95


could this be as genuine as besslers wheel?

[Jonathan]

I've never thought about it much because I found the complexity overwhelming.

[Oystein]

Most likely, but less ducumented that the Besslerwheel !

In letters he said that it turned by itself, but could not pull any load, and that he worked on improving it..

oystein

[John Collins]

any one bought this thing yet?

I had the pleasure of meeting up with Dave Brown last year on a visit to Florida. He kindly gave me an autographed copy of both the book and the CD and we discussed gravity wheels long into the night!

The book is an excellent and extremely accurate record of the story and includes the most detailed blueprints of all the various pieces of the Asa Jackson wheel. It has so far proved impossible to reassemble every part as per the original so the question of the wheel's veracity remains unproven. There are a number of "spare" parts all of which are detailed and for anyone intent on reconstructing the original it provides everything needed.

John Collins

[Jonathan]

How does he know that some of the parts aren't missing?

[Oxygon]

imo... this one really stinks of deception...

A overtly complex (my opinion) machine apears out of nowhere "a while ago" and yet ...un-assembled, but put on display as a "perpetual motion machine"??? with extra parts?

And you can "buy" info relating to it???

... it stinks.

Plus after looking over its design... what little is available "for free"...

I dont trust it ever was a perpetual motion machine.

Have any good ideas as to its method?

[Oxygon]

(Later on that day...)

Jeez, I must have been in a bad mood...

Sorry to sound so harsh, I really should watch my pessimism here... ;(

[John Collins]

Hi Oxygon,

No one knows if any parts are missing or if the unused parts are all necessary to the wheel. The story is well known and the only potential area of deception may lie in the mind of its inventor who built the machine in the 1860's. It is said that the wheel only produced enough energy to turn itself and would not have been able to turn anything else.

The sons of Asa Jackson tried to rebuild the wheel and there are obvious signs of later work on some of the parts where an attempt was made to fit them together in the wrong places. Anyway no one has worked out how it should have been reconstructed and the museum where it is housed won't let anyone else near it in case they remove more parts and make any potential reconstruction more difficlt. Dave Brown has done an excellent job of cataloguing all the parts for record purposes.

John C.

[Jon J Hutton]

Hello,

I just came back from a trip to the states. I try to make trips at least 2 times a year. I have been involved in projects regarding perpetual motion now for quite some time. I just recently married to a guatemalan and because my family is from Tullahoma Tn. and my wifes family ( pastors ) has a curch in Ft. Myers I find myself making the trip more than I would like.

The last trip I could not keep my curriosity under wraps so I had to go to Norris Tn. I have to admit I was awe struck, and dissapointed by looking at the Asa Jackson wheel. After reading some on it....it appears that it was taken apart and put back together many times in 1930 with no luck of motion. It also sounds like, from information in the museum that what is shown is not the original wheel but a rebuild, but, I could be mistaken because unfortunately I could not spend much time at the museum. If it was the original...which I think it was despite what I read, there is one obvious piece missing and that was the leather belt used in its construction (perhaps that is covered in the book and cd). It took obviously many designs of this wheel by Asa to finally attain motion. I am a furniture builder and we used mostly red oak...so when I saw the wheel too used red oak I was amazed. The weight must be incredible hence the hefty springs on the bottom two feet. If it did run the friction even with lubrication would of been horrible in comparison to some high density plastics. On the other hand metal during the civil war time was scarce and oak was a good choice because of its density resistance to cupping or warping. I was a bit puzzled because the wood used, was rotary cut pieces ( all items comming from the early 1900 and 1800 used quarter sawn logs) which could suggest a rebuild...or he used what he could find at the local saw mill, meaning the finer choice wood, was taken for furniture. Since the wheel came from another nearby town, perhaps on my next visit I can visit and talk to some of the old timers myself. It was unfortunate that the display was completely sealed off from touching it, and the plexiglass panels and bad lighting ruled out using a flash pictures. The new pieces were easy to spot but I only counted 3 that were added in the last say 70 - 100 years. On final view it was way too complicated to be a hoax and each piece had a specific function....the engeneering was absolutely stunning. There was zero evidence to suggest hoax.....but the museam did not post any original letters suggesting it ran either. They did say that some old timmers told the story of it running and attracting many crowds and college people. I bielieve it ran, but if a person were more criticle than I, They would not spend any more time looking at it than to read the display cards. If the museum is going to display a stunning scientific and cultural piece of art, that has a potential impact, on a scale equal to that of the computer or greater, it merrits the display of all evidence surrouding it. It was a wonderful trip

JJH

[ken_behrendt]

I've been fascinated by Jackson's wheel ever since I heard about it and I intend on getting the book and CD on it when I finally get some time to be able to thoroughly study them.

Unfortunately, in the case of the documentation attesting to the operation of Jackson's wheel, it is miniscule compared to what Bessler's efforts generated. However, I think there is, at least, some mention of Jackson's wheel having powered a butter churn continuously for about a month which, because this alleged event took place in the era before the electrification of the US, is something that should make us sit up and take notice.

Originally, I was convinced that he found some way to convert a continuous rocking beam motion into rotary motion, but I'm starting to change my mind on this. Now, I suspect that Jackson's wheel was nothing more than an overbalancing gravity motor that used two weight shifting mechanisms at right angles to each other. The goal was to keep the CG of the system on the descending side of the large wheels axle at all times. Apparently, like Bessler, springs played a critical role in maintaining this imbalance. Also, like Bessler's wheels, I suspect that the actual torque Jackson's wheel produced was very small and that, if it did indeed run a churn, it must have required some system of gears or pulleys to increase the forces it could apply to the churn handle.

I've attached a quick Paint sketch to illustrate what I am suggesting.

I think the complexity of the Jackson wheel stems from his having continuously refined its design on a single wheel. To really be able to study his device, I would need to secure permission to actually touch its parts and "feel" how they were sliding around inside of its open mechanism. This is something, unfortunately, that I do not think the museum would give.

In any event, it's kind of nice to actually have the wheel still in existence so that, at least, we can appreciate its complexity and the determination that was responsible for its construction.



ken

[Jon J Hutton]

Ken,

I think you are right about it not being a rocking motion. I was and am still convinced that it rotated completely around. As to it actually churning butter.... I found nothing to support that information. There was a second wheel connected by a leather pulley but the display card said it was added later to show how it could of been used. As heavy as the thing was, if it could be remade with lighter material it would produce a heck of allot of work. I did however discoverd that there was an additional leather belt that nobody seems to know anything about that played an important part to its running. Had you heard anything about a belt before?

JJH

[Michael]

I think the complexity of the Jackson wheel stems from his having continuously refined its design on a single wheel. To really be able to study his device, I would need to secure permission to actually touch its parts and "feel" how they were sliding around inside of its open mechanism. This is something, unfortunately, that I do not think the museum would give.

They might Ken. They let Dave Brown check it out. Perhaps if you gave the right implications you would be able to.

[Wheeler]

I think that they have not and will not ever be able to show it as anything, but something to keep people coming.
There is no reason to not hand it over to science other than they already know it is nothing.
Cash flow is a good sideshow.

[Jon J Hutton]

I do agree wheeler but only because it would take sheer luck to get the thing running like Asa was able to do ( assumption). There were way too many loose parts, all very similar in size and shape. It was either meant to be found by the Yankee soldiers and cause them a world of grief in trying to figure out how the heck it worked ( conspiracy theory ) or it actually worked and Asa missed out on a prize in physics and engineering.

JJH

[pstroud]

I ordered the book / CD on Monday to check it out....

Preston.