A pay-driven site.

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Who thinks, based on the subject question, that this should be a pay driven site?

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Michael
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A pay-driven site.

Post by Michael »

Just a question. I thought a way this site could keep down the imposter traffic, you know, the guys who have multiple accounts, would be to make it so that a person could only post if they have made a small donation by credit card. The reason wouldn't be to make money, the donation could be small like 10 dollars a year, but to show posters are credible since validation could be done by use of a valid credit card.
Don't shoot me, like I said it is only a question/suggestion.
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erick
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Post by erick »

I definitely understand where you're coming from. I too have a hard time with the idea of posting concrete ideas and research that I've done in what is a forum that is basically wide open to the public (whether it be in community buzz or not). If only there was a way to weed out those who are only passive observers, impostors, whatever you'd like to call them. I think that's what you're getting at (?)

How about this for an idea: Instead of making a cash donation how about your donation is one one of ideas? In this scenario you would submit a portion of your work to some sort of advisory panel who then decides whether or not a submission is credible. If it is, you are let into the group. What do you think?
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Jim Williams
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re: A pay-driven site.

Post by Jim Williams »

In the Patent Library (PTDL) here in San Francisco access to patents is so free even copies of patents are at no charge. While patents themselves cost a fortune, the motivation for receiving a patent probably involves attempted profiting by the inventor of the invention.

For those of us not motivated first by money by this site either in posting new wheels or something else, I don't think charging for posting is such a good idea. The imposters looking to profit from their posts would probably be willing to put up the money. Contributions to Scott can be made in private regardless.

Your idea feels more to me like a punative cigarette tax on a vice rather than an encouragement to good ideas.
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re: A pay-driven site.

Post by ovyyus »

Michael, your idea might be an effective way to dissuade imposters. At present it seems relatively easy for anyone with net-savvy to create multiple anonymous accounts as they please. I think genuine contributors want to be identified and responsible for what they say in our community.

BTW, if we are to make sense of any forum poll results, such as this one, then don't we need to know that it's one person, one vote? How can that ever properly work with multiple imposter accounts acting with impunity?

I guess my vote is 'yes'.
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Grimer
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re: A pay-driven site.

Post by Grimer »

As far as I am concerned lurkers are welcome to "steal" anything I publish. My reward from research has always been the thrill of discovery not any other considerations such as promotion, money or reputation.

Compared to other forums I have been on besslerwheel.com seems to have little problem from trolls or uncivilized posters. Scott has everything well under control.

For the above reasons I have voted no.

However, I completely understand why some people take a different view and would be perfectly happy to go along with a majority decision provided the entry fee was not excessive. Not more than £10 ($20), say.

This would certainly eliminate what my son who occasionally trades cars calls "timewasters".

Edit. Rereading Michael's post, I see he suggested an annual fee. Personally I find annual fees a nuisance and would prefer a one off joining fee.
Last edited by Grimer on Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by greendoor »

I wish to point out a very basic logic flaw here. There is an assumption that money is an obstacle to 'timewasters' or those with fraudulent or malicious intent. There is also the corollary assumption that genuine, talented free-energy researchers are prepared to pay money for giving away there ideas.

I hope by the way I have phrased this you can see the logic flaws here - but for those who can't, let me explain.

The people with the most malicious intent are those who have an agenda to disrupt free energy research. They are probably paid by oil money or similar vested interests to keep their particular industry 'safe'. These guys have deep pockets, and stumping up $1000's for multiple accounts would not be a problem.

Many of the genuine free-energy researchers that I have utmost respect for are retired engineers who no longer have unlimited funding. This would be a burden to those who have the most to offer, and the least likely corruption from vested interest.

Therefore I would suggest that any financial bar would ensure the death of this forum and support the cause of those who wish to shroud the whole Bessler saga in deceipt and disinformation.
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Grimer
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re: A pay-driven site.

Post by Grimer »

greendoor wrote:I wish to point out a very basic logic flaw here. There is an assumption that money is an obstacle to 'timewasters' or those with fraudulent or malicious intent. There is also the corollary assumption that genuine, talented free-energy researchers are prepared to pay money for giving away there ideas.

I hope by the way I have phrased this you can see the logic flaws here - but for those who can't, let me explain.

The people with the most malicious intent are those who have an agenda to disrupt free energy research. They are probably paid by oil money or similar vested interests to keep their particular industry 'safe'. These guys have deep pockets, and stumping up $1000's for multiple accounts would not be a problem.

Many of the genuine free-energy researchers that I have utmost respect for are retired engineers who no longer have unlimited funding. This would be a burden to those who have the most to offer, and the least likely corruption from vested interest.

Therefore I would suggest that any financial bar would ensure the death of this forum and support the cause of those who wish to shroud the whole Bessler saga in deceit and disinformation.
Maybe Michael is a deep cover agent of Vested Interests and his suggestion is designed to do just that (only kidding Image )
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re: A pay-driven site.

Post by ovyyus »

Greendoor, I'd be interested to know why you choose to remain anonymous?
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Neo
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re: A pay-driven site.

Post by Neo »

I have an idea, why don't we hold a yearly Bessler Wheel Convention. Where attendance is by registered user invitation, ID check, and signed Non disclosure letter at the door. This would free some if not all of disclosing their ideas to the group. I say even Amateur Scientists need to collogue in a secure environment.
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Michael
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re: A pay-driven site.

Post by Michael »

I just think credit card verification is a good one, can anyone see any problems with it? Risking diplomacy I just wonder why p_motion is posting the same invention up at overunity.com that Bessler_supporter is. Ditto to Bills question.
Anyhow...
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broli
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Post by broli »

Here's my professional opinion: this idea is stupid.
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re: A pay-driven site.

Post by daxwc »

broli's quote:
Here's my professional opinion: this idea is stupid.
yes... very professional.

Not sure why you answered when everybody knew your status.



Greendoor's Quote:
Therefore I would suggest that any financial bar would ensure the death of this forum and support the cause of those who wish to shroud the whole Bessler saga in deceipt and disinformation.
Death of this forum? Highly unlikely, but probably bring more cooperation with the real Bessler group and keep the people with other agendas out. I also believe it would also stop multiple imposter accounts if the fee was high enough.
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murilo
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re: A pay-driven site.

Post by murilo »

Mike,
pls correct me, if wrong.
I can read your mind...
At the deep you dream and feed the illusion of a kind of closed brotherhood of PM community.
In your mind you guess that some fee or payment will send what we need and don`t have.
Fact is that just a miracle will change this status.
We act like a clue of oysters over the rock and in the fight between the waves and this rock is been lost for all of us.
Nobody wins and everyone is alone and ignore to the others!
As I said before, as in a Miss Universe concourse!
Sorry... this is the picture I see.
Cheers!
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Michael
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re: A pay-driven site.

Post by Michael »

At the deep you dream and feed the illusion of a kind of closed brotherhood of PM community
??? Closed brotherhood? Absolutely not Murilo. The reasons for this thread are the reason I stated at the beginning.
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ovyyus
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re: A pay-driven site.

Post by ovyyus »

broli wrote:Here's my professional opinion...
Broli, what profession are you in?

I'd be interested to know why any member chooses to remain anonymous? Anonymity seems to defeat the purpose of community.
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