Bessler's 2 Wheels

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re: Bessler's 2 Wheels

Post by path_finder »

To the opponents (whatever),
Please stop to squabble.
The skin of the bear is not here yet.
Keep your energy for the quest of the graal.
Many thanks in advance.


Dear all,
About this matter regarding the melting materials, lead, iron, silver,etc: IMHO this terms shall be taken at the second level
If as suggested many times, the words used for some materials represent the planets and the active elements of the nature, the signification of all of this could be the following:
when two planets (aka 'parts of the design') under some forces (aka 'natural energy') become in conjunction, the form of the assembly is changed and a new effect occurs.
Just a suggestion.
I cannot imagine why nobody though on this before, including myself? It is so simple!...
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Re: re: Bessler's 2 Wheels

Post by not_me »

AB Hammer wrote:
justsomeone wrote:Jim, P-motion, Not-me... said about abhammers design:

" Amateurish design, lacks any understanding of engineering principles. "


I say.... Like this?
justsomeone

Jim's attack will never stop. He can't see past the end of his nose. IMO

Understanding of engineering principles? LOL That design I have posted, was my first fluid design and has plenty of engineering principle. I was using a light oil in it for a few reason.

note. Moving pistons create friction causing heat, so the light oil will lubricate, cool, and is rust resistant. 3 very important engineering principles that Jim is seems to lack understanding by his statement.
Not to mention any time a piston is falling in a tube it will cause a vacuum on one side and the design is where the air will have a place to go and the other one is pushing the oil into the vacuum. I am sure Jim will claim me copying him on this principle now I said something about it. He has claimed me copying him before to try to get me to show my secrets.

In all that Jim has shown and posted. He has never shown any vacuum principle that has to be there, or there is no chance in hell it will work in a closed system without it.

In the world there is smart engineers, moderate engineers, and stupid engineers as well. Having a paper saying you are an engineer doesn't prove you are intelligent. Not to mention engineer is now days, has a wide range of types that have nothing to do with mechanical as well.

PS. I have been defending myself from Jim's bull, lies, and accusations for 2 years. Like I said he will never stop.
Alan,
I like my design better. You posted the bubble Machine of yours where a blower pumped air into water. This would allow weighted floats to sink.
As I tried to point out to you, the rising air would be a counter force to floats sinking in a wheel type design.
I suggested to you using collapsible weights where the air is drawn into the one on top when it's weight moves downward. The opposing weighted float would have it's weight collapsing thus helping to pump the air. Two weights acting on the same medium.
Of course, I improved your idea sufficiently for a new invention as you said your idea stays as is and has no need for improvement.
Since my idea is posted, and was posted to you, it is possible you modified my design. And to that I would say, more parts, more weight, what improvement ?
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Re: re: Bessler's 2 Wheels

Post by not_me »

path_finder wrote:To the opponents (whatever),
Please stop to squabble.
The skin of the bear is not here yet.
Keep your energy for the quest of the graal.
Many thanks in advance.


Dear all,
About this matter regarding the melting materials, lead, iron, silver,etc: IMHO this terms shall be taken at the second level
If as suggested many times, the words used for some materials represent the planets and the active elements of the nature, the signification of all of this could be the following:
when two planets (aka 'parts of the design') under some forces (aka 'natural energy') become in conjunction, the form of the assembly is changed and a new effect occurs.
Just a suggestion.
Hi Path_Finder,
As things are, I like the idea I will be building. And yes, it will take some time.
A result of this is I would probably be more of a distraction working on the wheel and posting. Some say it will never work.
What I like is some of the clues Stewart and drax mentioned. They only help to reinforce my belief it will be found to be Bessler's wheel.
There is also something in the engineering that is another of Bessler's drawings that refers to the mechanics. I think only someone like Trevor would find that part interesting as it would be mainly an engineering principle and might be difficult to be understood.
I'll pop in once in a while, but I think if it does work, then someone will say, behind every successful man is a woman telling him he's wrong. There is someone who for 2 years has told me that :-)
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re: Bessler's 2 Wheels

Post by not_me »

Trevor,
Look at Mt 20. It has long levers that work on the inside of the wheel.
If you try considering how those work and can move a weight, the same principle applies
to the pump on this wheel.
Centrifugal force would be really limited on a weight that is hanging from it's pivot point above it. Nothing really to be concerned with.
The weight working the pump could then be considered to have both gravity, centrifugal force and even possibly another weight assisting on working the pump.
My favorite clue by Bessler was he wanted to start a school. To me, this means his engineering would need to be learned. After all, no engineering allows for his wheel to work.
That's why Wikipedia says next to impossible or something like that.
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re: Bessler's 2 Wheels

Post by path_finder »

Dear not_me,
Don't take in account too much some words wich can be interpreted as hard.
Go to the essential.
Don't waste your time in arguties wich cannot give some progression.
Some remarks can be the result from a misunderstanding or from some valuable frustrations.
The most important is the exchange of ideas.
Please continue your experiments and share your results.
I'm conviced the level of this forum is able to give us one day the solution.
I cannot imagine why nobody though on this before, including myself? It is so simple!...
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Re: re: Bessler's 2 Wheels

Post by bluesgtr44 »

not_me wrote:
bluesgtr44 wrote:Thought maybe some of you would find this interesting within the confines of the discussion.....D.T., pg. 219...J. Collins
In a machine such as mine, on the other hand, the motive force, the ability to move itself and drive other objects makes up the FORM of the device, without which its framework is just any old heap of material, which has completely lost its essence. To cause the machine to stop requires the application of a greater external force, and can be accomplished without difficulty whenever one requires it, e.ga. for the machines longer conservation. Such a cessation can also occur through the wearing-out or breaking of the machines parts. The first is a "moral accident", the second a "material accident". As an example of the ideas I am discussing, coincide the case of two small metal spheres, one of iron and one of lead. For both of them, their FORM consists in their regular sphericity. But we find that, placed in a furnace, one loses its shape quicker that the other. Therefore the greater or lesser "meltability" of such spheres is not the result of "sphericalness" - common to both - but to the physical characteristics of the two materials. And it is this "material accident" which is the FORMAL CAUSE of the difference.
A bit of a lead up to that last paragraph....he was defending the notion that his machine was and should be deemed perpetual, not eternal....in that it would simply take one of these situations to stop it from turning. All else being equal, the principle that "drives" his machine is...in and of itself...a perpetuating force.

Same book just the next paragraph.....
And so I must stress that if a Perpetual MOtion machine of the type I have described really is in conformity with the demands of the most eminent mathematicians and engineers, thin it really deserves the Perpetual Motion appellation no matter how fragile the material from which it is consturcted. The case is no different from that of a leadin or even waxen sphere. They are both as perfectly deserving of the description "sphere" as is an iron one, despite the fact that the latter will withstand fire and other attacks better than the two former. For form gives the essence of the thing.
Make of these what you will, but he's definitely trying to explain something here. Right off the bat he seems to separate a "framework" from that which provides the driving force. Twice he describes this FORM as the essence of the device. I wouldn't dig too deep in what he used as descriptions simply because he was not one to give much of anything away. I do think he is trying to convey a simple understanding that his device would maintain perpetuity as long as this FORM is maintained.


Steve
Hi Steve,
You got it right. When lead and iron are melted, they are molten. They have poor flow characteristics. But their form is relative to their state.
Likewise, water is in a liquid stae, without form.

edited to add; with water, the form comes from function. It's purpose or use is what will give it form.
Hey not_me...I don't think Bessler's point was about melting as much as it was about the form. He is simply making the point for his device being perpetual and that "wear and tear" are unavoidable.

I think he is saying that no matter what happens by the two mentioned "accidents" situations...either moral or material. The descriptions cover the material aspect of the accidens that would stop the ability of the machine to perpetuate, not the supply that causes the perpetuity.

The FORM he mentions is the whole device together. He does seem to imply that the FORM, or essence is maintained within this framework....and that this framework is basically worthless without the addition of this component. I personally do not think the basic principle requires a liquid. I do have a notion that there are 2 to 3 separate entities that, when put together within that "structure or framework" produces or induces an OOB condition.


Steve
Finding the right solution...is usually a function of asking the right questions. -A. Einstein
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Re: re: Bessler's 2 Wheels

Post by bluesgtr44 »

Trevor Lyn Whatford wrote:Hi Alan,

thanks for that but what I wanted to know was what bessler saw when looking at lead melt! does the lead (weight) turn into fluid at the rim first? as it may be a clue! weight turning into fluid! was he thinking of a compression wheel rolling onto a reservoir?

Just a thought thanks Alan regards Trevor
Hey Trevor, didn't mean to lead you astray with that. The "meltability" he was referring to was based on the stability of the parts/pieces used to construct his machine. He was using this description to define his view of a perpetual motion vs. an eternal motion. Showing that the durability of those parts had nothing to do with perpetuity as these components were flawed themselves from the beginning, but that this "material accidens" did not have anything to do with that which provided the ability to be perpetual.

I believe the interesting part of this is the separation of this "framework" from that which does provide that perpetuity. For without this, it would just be a worthless piece of framework. It is the principle behind this component that we are seeking.


Steve
Finding the right solution...is usually a function of asking the right questions. -A. Einstein
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Post by AB Hammer »

Greetings Steve

I did find the melting question a bit out of place but, Trevor asked so I answered.

As for not_me/Jim statement.

Bubbles reduce buoyancy is a proven fact. Proved even by Myth Busters as well that you can sink a boat with bubbles. The only question needed with the design is. Can the machine provide enough bubbles with a blower to keep it running? The rest of what he said I couldn't care less about for it is meant to try to insinuate a lie. Also to say with a slight change he was going to steel my design. An attempt to insight anger.
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re: Bessler's 2 Wheels

Post by Trevor Lyn Whatford »

Hi Alan,

thank for posting me the melting lead stuff it was what I was looking for!

This bubble design I have not seen, but it would be better to inflate reservoir on a big submerged wheel as there would be good torque to be gained, just think of inflatable car jacks and the weight they move so the reservoirs should be able to open against water pressure! still need a large energy input though! just a thought.

Regards Trevor
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I have been right before!
Hindsight will tell us!
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Post by AB Hammer »

Greetings Trevor

Good luck on what you are doing. I am sticking dry for now. But have you seen my bubble wheel? You might want to take a look at it.

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... t=buoyancy

At least it may give you some ideas.

Alan
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re: Bessler's 2 Wheels

Post by Trevor Lyn Whatford »

Hi Jim,

I looked at MT 20 levers, but I do not think they will help much! because of the travel from L2 to get a leverage ratio of at least 16 to 1! find your compression movement you need then scale it and draw it, it a good size movement, and the 16 to 1 is based on 1 litre of water to 1 kg of lever weight!

This is why I prefer a compression roller on a soft ring reservoir! plus it will always match the speed up to the max, and as it rolls it is driving the wheel like a friction gear, plus it will be rolling down hill, plus while its pushing against the fluid the fluid is push back! plus there is no stop start just continuos movement, plus once the fluid and compression roller start to move the easer it will get! this is why I like the way you design your reservoir because they give a lot back I think with levers it well not reach its full potential. still there is no harm in trying but scale the levers first to help find a suitable lever layout.

Jim when I gets some time after my builds I would like to come back to your reservoir if that is all right with you, and you have not got it running by you self!

Regards Trevor
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re: Bessler's 2 Wheels

Post by Trevor Lyn Whatford »

Hi Alan,

It maybe better to collect the bubble in a reverse water wheel!

Bubble can sink a ship! as it is one of the B triangle answers, gas escaping under the ocean and sinking ships with out a trace!

Regards Trevor
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I have been right before!
Hindsight will tell us!
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Re: re: Bessler's 2 Wheels

Post by not_me »

Trevor Lyn Whatford wrote:Hi Jim,

I looked at MT 20 levers, but I do not think they will help much! because of the travel from L2 to get a leverage ratio of at least 16 to 1! find your compression movement you need then scale it and draw it, it a good size movement, and the 16 to 1 is based on 1 litre of water to 1 kg of lever weight!

This is why I prefer a compression roller on a soft ring reservoir! plus it will always match the speed up to the max, and as it rolls it is driving the wheel like a friction gear, plus it will be rolling down hill, plus while its pushing against the fluid the fluid is push back! plus there is no stop start just continuos movement, plus once the fluid and compression roller start to move the easer it will get! this is why I like the way you design your reservoir because they give a lot back I think with levers it well not reach its full potential. still there is no harm in trying but scale the levers first to help find a suitable lever layout.

Jim when I gets some time after my builds I would like to come back to your reservoir if that is all right with you, and you have not got it running by you self!

Regards Trevor
Hi Trevor,
You just mentioned what I've been trying to get across to everyone.
It's not like seeing a solid (metal) heated on the lip of a ceramic bowl and then flowing to the bottom. Of course, to see tear drop shapes, put it through a strainer, otherwise it's just a flow. I've melted enough metal to know. Doubt babbit is much different. plus worked with people who poured various metals like extruding aluminum. Doesn't matter though.
Just something to talk about around the cooler.
But to convert Bessler's clues and drawings into a wheel is differrent.
I think the real problem is that nobody in these forums understands hydraulics. And something like that, schooling helps. Then someone could understand the technical aspects of it and how it seems to cheat physics.
But as one esteemed person said, education doesn't matter.
Anymore, i do believe I am in the wrong place. Most people who recreate a part of history won't be found on-line promoting themselves or what they're doing.
Of course, have heard for 2 years I am wrong. Then again, they say behind every successful man is a woman telling him he's wrong. I'm glad they didn't say wife :-)
And yes Alan, once again I am wrong. All I have ever heard from you. Except for me attacking you by trying to take it easy while being treated for cancer. not sure how you came out the victim on that. I was to sick to defend myself.

By the way all, the original reason i got banned is I was tired of Ralph telling me I was an idiot because of my spelling in English. He knows I had a head injury and English is my second language. Not sure why he was supported in harassing me.
Heck, Alan even said he follows me around because he considers me retarded.
They make a good couple.
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re: Bessler's 2 Wheels

Post by AB Hammer »

Jim / not_me said
I think the real problem is that nobody in these forums understands hydraulics. And something like that, schooling helps. Then someone could understand the technical aspects of it and how it seems to cheat physics.
Jim in other words said, that he is the only person that understand hydraulics


Jim / not_me said
But as one esteemed person said, education doesn't matter.
Most likely out of context for, all the education in the world won't do any good if you don't have the common since how to use it.


Jim / not_me said
Anymore, i do believe I am in the wrong place. Most people who recreate a part of history won't be found on-line promoting themselves or what they're doing.
Of course, have heard for 2 years I am wrong. Then again, they say behind every successful man is a woman telling him he's wrong. I'm glad they didn't say wife :-)
And yes Alan, once again I am wrong. All I have ever heard from you. Except for me attacking you by trying to take it easy while being treated for cancer. not sure how you came out the victim on that. I was to sick to defend myself.
Twisting the truth and crying for sympathy.

Jim / not_me said
By the way all, the original reason i got banned is I was tired of Ralph telling me I was an idiot because of my spelling in English. He knows I had a head injury and English is my second language. Not sure why he was supported in harassing me.
More bull, Jim's extra sign ins where banned P-Motion his favorite was not.
The rest is bull$#!+


Jim / not_me said
Heck, Alan even said he follows me around because he considers me retarded.
Jim can never show where I said this, for I never did. But Jim keeps saying things in forums that I was suppose to have said and I never have said. He needs to show were I said this or admit he is a liar.

I quit talking to him on OU so he came over here. Who is following who?
I kept an eye on him to combat his constant lies about me, and got tired of doing that and most people on OU knows how Jim is and I could afford to ignore him until now. It seams like he is my own personal stalker. He even used names for forums of BAHammer because his obsession.

Stick to wheel talk Jim / not_me / P-Motion / ect Leave this personal crap out of it.
"Our education can be the limitation to our imagination, and our dreams"

So With out a dream, there is no vision.

Old and future wheel videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/ABthehammer/videos

Alan
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re: Bessler's 2 Wheels

Post by docfeelsgood »

GOOD GREIF
he said she said !! waah waa !! at least ya could make it interesting !!

first of april tomorrow ,, still no spur !! think i'm more than pissed !! aint good to be pissed !!
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