Bessler's Secret

[JAL]

agor, the weight stays on the same arm. As the line wraps around the disc, the weight is moving closer to the axle. This is where I suggested for anyone interested to find something round. Have a broom(?) go from 6 o'clock on the round container pointing away from the round container.
Then tape a line at 3 o'clock on the round container. The other end would be held to the broom's handle. Then rotate the broom handle with it's end at the 6 o'clock staying at that location.
If this is tried, the line will move up the broom handle. And if that happens they'll have a better understanding of what I've posted about this behavior.
When the top of the broom handle is at the 6 o'clock position on the round container, that would be the axle location for the wheel. The round container will be like a grindstone.
It's just that if people saw the motion for themselves they would understand it better.
With that said, what helped me to realize this is by working at it and trying different things. Experience can be a great teacher.

@agor, I'll make an animation. It will take me a few days because I want to give myself a rest. And if I do everything then everyone will know whose work it is. There will always be critics. That's because that is what they do, criticize others.

[agor95]

The weight stays on the same arm.

Fine it makes the process less complex if it swings to a position closer to the axle on the same arm.

We can see such things, in our minds eye. However conveying that to others is at times hard to do.

That why sims and maths help supplement a text description.

[MrTim]

He and rlortie were credible because the "Keel Effect" was what their combined 50 years of engineering experience allowed for.

Saying perpetual motion is not possible because of the "Keel Effect: is acceptable.

I am the one that first described "keeling", and I am neither of those people. (I'm sure they're relieved they're not me. either... ;-)

(In so many words)
"Keeling" is when one side of a wheel is heavy, and as mass tends to find the lowest point it can reach, the heavier side of the wheel will find it's rest at the 6 o'clock position. And, like a sailboat's keel, it will resist being pushed over (unless there is an overwhelming force of wind or, well, force, to do so.)

If your wheel is keeled or keeling, it's not PM's fault; It's your failed wheel design...

And...
All of this ad nauseum drama continues because of self-inflicted scab picking. Just. Stop. Admit (silently) to yourselves you are "right", and move on. Stop dredging up sh*t that happened years ago. Nobody else but the scab pickers gives a f*ck...

[agor95]

I am the one that first described "keeling"

I would like to place you in my personal hall of fame.

We should honour/honor those that have made such an impact to the forum.

Best Regards

[WaltzCee]

. . .
If your wheel is keeled or keeling, it's not PM's fault; It's your failed wheel design...

Hello mister Tim,
you coined a word that builders can feel. We have seen that effect so many times we can just feel it in our Bones. This word is perpetually embedded into the vernacular of Perpetual Motion Seekers forever. As I have said it so it shall be.

I do appreciate you stepping forward and taking credit for this. I knew that James was talking out of his lindgaard when he claimed it was Ralph and Alan's Word. I also noticed you have 666 post with an average of 66 words a post. Please don't ever say another thing.

I firmly believe James's wheel is going to keel. I don't think the scant work he calculates this wheel can do will be sufficient to overcome the frictions and the inertia of the mass of wood he's pilling up. In his terms it's going to make good kindling. I do agree with him.

[JAL]

He and rlortie were credible because the "Keel Effect" was what their combined 50 years of engineering experience allowed for.

Saying perpetual motion is not possible because of the "Keel Effect: is acceptable.

I am the one that first described "keeling", and I am neither of those people. (I'm sure they're relieved they're not me. either... ;-)

(In so many words)
"Keeling" is when one side of a wheel is heavy, and as mass tends to find the lowest point it can reach, the heavier side of the wheel will find it's rest at the 6 o'clock position. And, like a sailboat's keel, it will resist being pushed over (unless there is an overwhelming force of wind or, well, force, to do so.)

If your wheel is keeled or keeling, it's not PM's fault; It's your failed wheel design...

And...
All of this ad nauseum drama continues because of self-inflicted scab picking. Just. Stop. Admit (silently) to yourselves you are "right", and move on. Stop dredging up sh*t that happened years ago. Nobody else but the scab pickers gives a f*ck...

I've actually helped rebuild/overhaul boats. Yet what I know does not matter. People who accept the "Kill Effect" shouldn't be in forums like this.
Keels actually hold the left and right sides of a boat/ship together. It's the spine or backbone that the ribs/hull are connected
to.
Not all sailboats use keels. Those that do use them to counter torque so it can be converted into work. It would seem that you only looked at 1 value. Kind of why it's best for me not to be in here. I know quite a bit more about engineering than just the most basic understanding.
This is why some have accused me of poor behavior. I ignored the "Kill Effect" and considered physics instead.
It is interesting, neither the Egyptians or the Vikings used a keel yet their boats sailed smoothly on the water. Even Columbus didn't use a weighted keel. They used ballast which they could move. I think I will think for myself.
Anyway Mr Tim, thank you for clarifying this issue. It is as I told one individual years ago, I will let math guide me. Because the problem with someone stating one rule is that they could claim that they were teaching me and many people would accept such a claim. I find that scary because if people are not engaged in pursing something, they shouldn't be say pm is impossible or they are teaching. That's all that promoting such effects allows for.
Like Walt has said, I've put 10 or more years of work into my build. I can't expect someone that has put nothing into it to understand it. Just like when I went to school. I actually learned something by taking the time to learn. All of the test builds for research that I have done are meaningless when compared to the words of the "Kill Effect".
So you see Mr Tim, anyone who espouses the "Keel Effect" can be claiming to teach someone. Your taking the time to explain it to me shows that you were teaching me. And you did this by considering only 1 weight.
Yet I've known about boats since I was a little boy. This is funny because I've crossed 3 oceans on ships. I'm simply in the wrong pond 😀

By the way, the "Keel Effect" works because a weight hangs from something. Bessler said his weights got their force from swinging. The "Keel Effect" is static motion while swinging is a dynamic motion.

[WaltzCee]

. . .

[WaltzCee]

He and rlortie were credible because the "Keel Effect" was what their combined 50 years of engineering experience allowed for.

Saying perpetual motion is not possible because of the "Keel Effect: is acceptable.

I am the one that first described "keeling", and I am neither of those people. (I'm sure they're relieved they're not me. either... ;-)

(In so many words)
"Keeling" is when one side of a wheel is heavy, and as mass tends to find the lowest point it can reach, the heavier side of the wheel will find it's rest at the 6 o'clock position. And, like a sailboat's keel, it will resist being pushed over (unless there is an overwhelming force of wind or, well, force, to do so.)

If your wheel is keeled or keeling, it's not PM's fault; It's your failed wheel design...

And...
All of this ad nauseum drama continues because of self-inflicted scab picking. Just. Stop. Admit (silently) to yourselves you are "right", and move on. Stop dredging up sh*t that happened years ago. Nobody else but the scab pickers gives a f*ck...

I've actually helped rebuild/overhaul boats. Yet what I know does not matter. People who accept the "Kill Effect" shouldn't be in forums like this.
Keels actually hold the left and right sides of a boat/ship together. It's the spine or backbone that the ribs/hull are connected
to.
Not all sailboats use keels. Those that do use them to counter torque so it can be converted into work. It would seem that you only looked at 1 value. Kind of why it's best for me not to be in here. I know quite a bit more about engineering than just the most basic understanding.
This is why some have accused me of poor behavior. I ignored the "Kill Effect" and considered physics instead.
It is interesting, neither the Egyptians or the Vikings used a keel yet their boats sailed smoothly on the water. Even Columbus didn't use a weighted keel. They used ballast which they could move. I think I will think for myself.
Anyway Mr Tim, thank you for clarifying this issue. It is as I told one individual years ago, I will let math guide me. Because the problem with someone stating one rule is that they could claim that they were teaching me and many people would accept such a claim. I find that scary because if people are not engaged in pursing something, they shouldn't be say pm is impossible or they are teaching. That's all that promoting such effects allows for.
Like Walt has said, I've put 10 or more years of work into my build. I can't expect someone that has put nothing into it to understand it. Just like when I went to school. I actually learned something by taking the time to learn. All of the test builds for research that I have done are meaningless when compared to the words of the "Kill Effect".
So you see Mr Tim, anyone who espouses the "Keel Effect" can be claiming to teach someone. Your taking the time to explain it to me shows that you were teaching me. And you did this by considering only 1 weight.
Yet I've known about boats since I was a little boy. This is funny because I've crossed 3 oceans on ships. I'm simply in the wrong pond 😀

By the way, the "Keel Effect" works because a weight hangs from something. Bessler said his weights got their force from swinging. The "Keel Effect" is static motion while swinging is a dynamic motion.

hello mister Tim,
Makes you wish he was on some maiden voyage of the White Star Line.

[JAL]

@Mr Tim, with what I have been pursuing, it has nothing to do with the "Keel Effect". And if I am successful, I will be able to say that your "law" discouraged many people from trying because it showed them that pm is impossible.
So I should be Thankful to you :)
You see, in the Navy we had a weight at the end of something to hold the ship in one place, it's called an anchor. And it is nice of Walt to wish I were on the Titanic. Not everyone died. Probably not a memory that survivors cared for.
I wonder what is it that Walt wishes for me?
For you Walt. It kind of gets into astrophysics and the gravitational effect of the Moon. But I'm sure that you knew about this ;) Au Revoir, have better things to do :)
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news ... -sky-sink/

@Mr Tim, the wings on an airplane are attached to the wing box. I could argue that the keel that you refer to is a wing attached to the keel. Like my calling something a grindstone when it is not one. Just an term people might find easier to use. Semantics.

[JAL]

This goes into the history of flight.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Lilienthal

He did math to understand how a hang glider flew. The Wright Bros. realized that they couldn't use his math so did their own.
The difference being with a hang glider, the ballast (person) helps to create a flow of air underneath the wings based on rate of descent.
With powered flight, air flow is different. A plane has more velocity.
When I have my animation finished you will understand what I mean. With that said, no computer program can show perpetual motion. That isn't in it's programming.
At 60 frames per second, a wheel operating at 10 rpm will need 360 frames/images. Fortunately the human eye fills in the blanks. I should be able to show only 180 images. That's a movement of 2° per frame.
Why I pissed off everyone at overunity.com. I told them that I could out think everyone and their computers. It might be getting ready for Show Time. A person VS. computers. God I do love this 😀
Why it will be on my YouTube channel.
With a build only, if it works people might not understand it. A simulation of it will make it easier for people to understand the mechanics that allows it to work. What this will help is to prevent claims of fraud. People understand simulations much better.

What has been shown in the forums is the skepticism. That's one reason why the math will need to be in the simulation.
It'd be like using 3 cell towers or 3 GPS satellites to establish someone's position. It is funny isn't it? One person is pursuing all 3. You guys helped me to know what I am up against.
With the Keel Effect, it's the hang glider. Bessler's wheel would be more like powered flight.

[MrTim]

I also noticed you have 666 posts with an average of 66 words a post. Please don't ever say another thing.

I was saving it for a special occasion... ;-)

JAL, I'll leave you to your math (you know more than I care to learn. ;-)
I'm currently working with complex 3-dimensional dynamic/folding geometries (involving a workaround to quadrature that I found. Things that can't be visualized too well on paper... ;-)

[JAL]

Mr Tim, considering that you are using Mr Burns from The Simpsons as your avatar....
Yep, Mr Burns controls everything in Springfield. This is comical but not Comic-Con. They are lucky to have you Mr Burns. 😂

Sure is nice to know that the credible people consider Bessler a fraud. It's good to be hated in here.
And oyvvus, sailboats have a fin. It's in the water. In the air it's a wing.

[ovyyus]

Some melons are shaped like a head.

[JAL]

Mellon can be good 😉
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ca ... rsity-3242

To give you a clue, a column of water 1 cm^3 9.8 meters tall weighs 1.03 kg. It doesn't weigh. 98 kg. The extra mass can be attributed to gravity's potential acceleration. This is where Carnegie Mellon matters. It's about having the smarts.

@ME, if things work out for me, as far as spreadsheets go, I will point people in your direction. I like the work that you did. At the moment I am working on the spreadsheet. Your work has made this much easier for me. You can quote me on this. If you don't get it ME, your spreadsheet will help me to show the math.
For people to cry fraud, it won't be easy. Just too much work to put up with haters. Why everything has to be shown.
You guys have shown how much of a challenge it is.

[JAL]

If you guys don't get it, if anyone buys into a perpetual motion machine, you guys are nothing but a warm up. Public scrutiny will be worse than anything you guys can do. If someone can't handle you guys, they shouldn't be here.
Isn't that funny to think about? In reality you guys are a bunch of cupcakes. That's possibly the worst way I can insult you guys.
At least I know what I'm up against.