I'm thinking about having 4 arms, as opposed to 3.
I've already shown videos of the weights falling back in turn, around the 6 to 8 section of the wheel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGEGFVttHIQ
Maybe this would be possible with the same movement of the central hub. While the weight falling back after 6 is raised, with the central hub and the weight at 12, all of their accumulated weight is pivoting at 3, applying a downward force to the descending side.
The weight at 9, which will be in it's position closer to the axle, will simply sit on the wheel without being raised by the raising of the central hub. The arm holding the weight at 9 will pivot at the weight and at the central hub, with minimal movement to the weight at the end of the arm. The falling weight at 3 ish will then raise the 2 lighter weights (top and bottom) + the central hub.
It will be more complicated to do-with Algodoo because of the mechanisms needed to allow for the swinging back.
Edit; The weight will not be at 9 at the moment of action.
Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
Moderator: scott
-
Robinhood46
- Devotee
- Posts: 1516
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 am
- Location: Lot, France
Re: Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
Last edited by Robinhood46 on Wed Jul 06, 2022 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Robinhood46
- Devotee
- Posts: 1516
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 am
- Location: Lot, France
Re: Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
I started reproducing the last wheel, with rings, as opposed to the arms being connected together in the centre, to allow for an axle to be present and the ringed rods with their crossbars to limit their movement, reminded my of the famous Ankh.
I've always been pretty convinced that when we finally find the solution there will be an ancient symbol which will be representative of the motion, or the parts within the wheel. The Ankh would be as good a candidate as any other ancient symbol.
This is my first attempt at getting something to work with this symbol. There is definitely some interesting swinging going on. I don't get the impression that the central weight is actually a weight, more of a way of interconnecting the different arms and determining the path of each.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FWbStdiTDA
I've always been pretty convinced that when we finally find the solution there will be an ancient symbol which will be representative of the motion, or the parts within the wheel. The Ankh would be as good a candidate as any other ancient symbol.
This is my first attempt at getting something to work with this symbol. There is definitely some interesting swinging going on. I don't get the impression that the central weight is actually a weight, more of a way of interconnecting the different arms and determining the path of each.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FWbStdiTDA
Re: Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
Pharaon "RB46", you are well on your way to do great things.
ps: i started your pyramid (from the top) you will tell me when i stop. :)
A++
ps: i started your pyramid (from the top) you will tell me when i stop. :)
A++
The world is perfect.
-
Robinhood46
- Devotee
- Posts: 1516
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 am
- Location: Lot, France
Re: Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
Mdr.
Look on the bright side, when it doesn't work we will have some very sexy handbags to hold while sitting on our pyramid.
Look on the bright side, when it doesn't work we will have some very sexy handbags to hold while sitting on our pyramid.
Re: Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
I don't see the point to pyramids. But if you did then would you be sitting on them?
BenBen
BenBen
[MP] Mobiles that perpetuate - external energy allowed
-
spinner361
- Devotee
- Posts: 1152
- Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:34 am
- Location: Wisconsin, U.S.A.
Re: Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
You are very talented, Robinhood46.
Last edited by spinner361 on Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
Robinhood46
- Devotee
- Posts: 1516
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 am
- Location: Lot, France
-
Robinhood46
- Devotee
- Posts: 1516
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 am
- Location: Lot, France
Re: Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
This one looks very much like an animation, at least it does when i watch it, but it is actually a simulation. The problem being the recording and uploading.
The central hub has 5 pairs of weights = 10, the wheel which receives the weights has only 8 stops. This gives us 8 knocks per revolution of the drum, with a pentagon, or two.
For Bessler to have built something along these lines, we would have to acknowledge that the 8 knocks per revolution, which is what we are told, were counted during one revolution of the drum and not one revolution of the axle. One revolution of the axle would have given 10 knocks, because it rotates slower than the drum. I find it difficult to believe that nobody would have noticed the different rotating speeds, although i do accept it perfectly possible that, bearing in mind it is only 20% slower, it was overlooked.
With a bit more swinging going on the peacocks tail opening and closing would probably become visible. The weights don't give the impression of being all , or even mostly, one side but it could be said one side of the drum is full and the other side empty.
https://youtu.be/fC460pcXgWg
The central hub has 5 pairs of weights = 10, the wheel which receives the weights has only 8 stops. This gives us 8 knocks per revolution of the drum, with a pentagon, or two.
For Bessler to have built something along these lines, we would have to acknowledge that the 8 knocks per revolution, which is what we are told, were counted during one revolution of the drum and not one revolution of the axle. One revolution of the axle would have given 10 knocks, because it rotates slower than the drum. I find it difficult to believe that nobody would have noticed the different rotating speeds, although i do accept it perfectly possible that, bearing in mind it is only 20% slower, it was overlooked.
With a bit more swinging going on the peacocks tail opening and closing would probably become visible. The weights don't give the impression of being all , or even mostly, one side but it could be said one side of the drum is full and the other side empty.
https://youtu.be/fC460pcXgWg
-
Robinhood46
- Devotee
- Posts: 1516
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 am
- Location: Lot, France
Re: Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
It took a while to get this to actually function, to be able to show it, but once i found a way of getting it to run, as a simulation, it gave me more hope than i was expecting.
My thoughts are that maybe the two R's are connected to a single crossbar, which advances by increments every time one falls, which causing the raising of the other lighter weight and the raising of the heavy weight. I think the advancement, in relation to the wheel, needs to be controlled as opposed to what can be seen in the video.
I think it should be possible to have the lighter weights being slightly nearer to the axle on the up side than the down side. This would allow for the downside outer weights to hit outer stops, causing the knocking sound, (or the crossbar could be doing the knocking as it advances), and then clear the outer stops to be raised an increment on the up side.
As with most of my recent attempts, is difficult to know how many crossbars, weights and sections are needed to make it possible to create a wheel which gives us about 8 knocks for every rotation. This wheel has 15 sections, simply because it is more convenient than 17, although it is of little importance because the swinging R's aren't synchronized in any way with the wheel.
I do think this is promising.
https://youtu.be/p0KaJZ_epdE
My thoughts are that maybe the two R's are connected to a single crossbar, which advances by increments every time one falls, which causing the raising of the other lighter weight and the raising of the heavy weight. I think the advancement, in relation to the wheel, needs to be controlled as opposed to what can be seen in the video.
I think it should be possible to have the lighter weights being slightly nearer to the axle on the up side than the down side. This would allow for the downside outer weights to hit outer stops, causing the knocking sound, (or the crossbar could be doing the knocking as it advances), and then clear the outer stops to be raised an increment on the up side.
As with most of my recent attempts, is difficult to know how many crossbars, weights and sections are needed to make it possible to create a wheel which gives us about 8 knocks for every rotation. This wheel has 15 sections, simply because it is more convenient than 17, although it is of little importance because the swinging R's aren't synchronized in any way with the wheel.
I do think this is promising.
https://youtu.be/p0KaJZ_epdE
Re: Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
Hi RH46
I gave your youtube presentation a viewing.
What were you expecting to happen?
Regards
I gave your youtube presentation a viewing.
What were you expecting to happen?
Regards
Last edited by agor95 on Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[MP] Mobiles that perpetuate - external energy allowed
-
Robinhood46
- Devotee
- Posts: 1516
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 am
- Location: Lot, France
Re: Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
i wasn't expecting it to do a great deal different than what it does.
What i wasn't really expecting, was the lighter weight to be raised as it does on the ascending side. I was expecting the heavy weight to get to the limit of it's housing but not to have enough inertia to cause the raising of the lighter weight.
The heavy weight crossing 12 o'clock is at the front of its housing, once the lighter weight starts falling the housing allows it to gain momentum before the other end of the housing hits, and swivels, on the heavy weight. I think once i manage to synchronise the falling weights with the wheel, this will no longer be the case because the gained force from the fall will be shared between lifting the heavy weight and supply an impulse to the rotating wheel as opposed to raising the other light weight.
What i wasn't really expecting, was the lighter weight to be raised as it does on the ascending side. I was expecting the heavy weight to get to the limit of it's housing but not to have enough inertia to cause the raising of the lighter weight.
The heavy weight crossing 12 o'clock is at the front of its housing, once the lighter weight starts falling the housing allows it to gain momentum before the other end of the housing hits, and swivels, on the heavy weight. I think once i manage to synchronise the falling weights with the wheel, this will no longer be the case because the gained force from the fall will be shared between lifting the heavy weight and supply an impulse to the rotating wheel as opposed to raising the other light weight.
Re: Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
Hi RH46
The presentation looks original [new].
It is a good thing to look into areas others have not presented before.
The take home aspects for me is in seeing your presentation is the pendulum has a pivot point that is the weight near the axle.
This after the pendulum over tops slides up in the guild on the other pendulum.
This pivot and slide is novel and is interesting for that reason.
The other part is the outer weight position resulting in them not being 180 degrees apart. So some of the time there is negative and others positive torque.
So you have a way to over top a pendulum using another.
That is good news.
Now what would be good is the pendulum swinging along the bottom is used to pull the top pendulum over sooner.
And the dropping pendulum pulling back on the bottom pendulum a little.
Then just remove the disc inertia to allow for more acceleration out of the system.
Regards
The presentation looks original [new].
It is a good thing to look into areas others have not presented before.
The take home aspects for me is in seeing your presentation is the pendulum has a pivot point that is the weight near the axle.
This after the pendulum over tops slides up in the guild on the other pendulum.
This pivot and slide is novel and is interesting for that reason.
The other part is the outer weight position resulting in them not being 180 degrees apart. So some of the time there is negative and others positive torque.
So you have a way to over top a pendulum using another.
That is good news.
Now what would be good is the pendulum swinging along the bottom is used to pull the top pendulum over sooner.
And the dropping pendulum pulling back on the bottom pendulum a little.
Then just remove the disc inertia to allow for more acceleration out of the system.
Regards
[MP] Mobiles that perpetuate - external energy allowed
-
Robinhood46
- Devotee
- Posts: 1516
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 am
- Location: Lot, France
Re: Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
I'm not 100% sure i understand what you are suggesting, because it seems to be counter productive.
The swinging back of the weights, or pendulums, has always been a cause for serious losses, because of the need to completely change their trajectory from moving in the opposite direction of the wheel to stop and then accelerate the other way. This looks like it might be avoidable, by the weights accelerating the wheel in the direction of rotation and then the wheel accelerating the weights in the direction of rotation. Hopefully making use of the differences in rotational speeds of the two systems.
If you want to try and show me what you mean, exactly, i can share the scene, so you can play with it as you wish. I know sharing scenes is possible and if i know someone wants a copy I'll make the effort of learning how to do it.
The swinging back of the weights, or pendulums, has always been a cause for serious losses, because of the need to completely change their trajectory from moving in the opposite direction of the wheel to stop and then accelerate the other way. This looks like it might be avoidable, by the weights accelerating the wheel in the direction of rotation and then the wheel accelerating the weights in the direction of rotation. Hopefully making use of the differences in rotational speeds of the two systems.
If you want to try and show me what you mean, exactly, i can share the scene, so you can play with it as you wish. I know sharing scenes is possible and if i know someone wants a copy I'll make the effort of learning how to do it.
Re: Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
I understand we want to add any swing action onto the top pendulum in the same rotation direction.
The suggestion is to use the radial tension in the lower pendulum as a source to assist in the top pendulum flip action. That action would not cause a swing forwards or backwards.
With all these designs one has to dive into the design with a defined illustration.
P.S. Very slight action each rotation. We want not to be greedy with the motion.
Regards
The suggestion is to use the radial tension in the lower pendulum as a source to assist in the top pendulum flip action. That action would not cause a swing forwards or backwards.
With all these designs one has to dive into the design with a defined illustration.
P.S. Very slight action each rotation. We want not to be greedy with the motion.
Regards
Last edited by agor95 on Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
[MP] Mobiles that perpetuate - external energy allowed
-
Robinhood46
- Devotee
- Posts: 1516
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 am
- Location: Lot, France
Re: Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference
If there is no swinging back or forward as the top pendulum goes over the top, with regard it's relation to the wheel, then i see it as the wheel is taking it over the top. The flip of the pendulum after 12, in my opinion, is way too early in the video, maybe a spring between the two Rs could delay it's fall to a more effective moment. or individual springs connected to the crossbar (the imaginary one that isn't in the video).
I have tried using the backward swing of the lower pendulum to do useful work on a different pendulum, which is generally at the top, but to no real success. Maybe the interconnection method of the two Rs, with them using each others weights for swivels, will be more productive.