AP Wheel within Wheel

[Soon]

I know a sin 90 = 2 cos 60. sine is rotated 90º from the y axis while cosine is rotated 60º
from the x axis.

That is the good thing about circular functions you can get to the same place via different rotations.

All the rest of your post is worthy of another thread of it's own.

I am starting the work to calculation the T (K.E.) and U (P.E.) of the system in my last post.

P.S. This thread is about the future not the past.

And if I do as you ask then no one can accuse me of stealing your idea when it will be the same idea.
And then since I will have realized your idea then you'll sue me. And since patents can be granted on improving
a previous invention, what I will be posting is an obvious improvement. And then people will be afraid of sharing/
posting their ideas in here.
Hopefully you'll understand how this can have unforeseen consequences.

p.s., watlcy is both the past, the present and the future. He is ab hammer's child (ab hammer taught him).

[agor95]

I will have realized your idea then you'll sue me.

No problem there; anyone can use these public domain posts. I am not important, but the message is.

P.S. The reason this thread is here. I can read them and not login.
As there is no login they are public domain posts; along with yours.
So you will need your new thread in the register only section of the forum.
I was under the belief a person can not patent public domain intellectual property.

Have fun.

[Soon]

I will have realized your idea then you'll sue me.

No problem there; anyone can use these public domain posts. I am not important, but the message is.

P.S. The reason this thread is here. I can read them and not login.
As there is no login they are public domain posts; along with yours.
So you will need your new thread in the register only section of the forum.
I was under the belief a person can not patent public domain intellectual property.

Have fun.

When you post your idea it is your intellectual property. What you say doesn't matter. So when you posted
what you did, it became your intellectual property. In the U.S you have 1 year from first publication to patent
your invention. After that it becomes public domain and cannot be patented. Many countries have the same
law so that inventors can have their intellectual property protected.
For an exaggerated example, if a wheel tilts in a wheel at 30º cosine then its weight will be 1 x 0.866 for its
axis. This would reduce its over/under balance by 13.4% of its radius. So if it has a 10cm radius and is 1m
from the center of the wheel, then its over and under balance would be decreased by 1.34cm.
Then instead of 90cm to 1.1m it would be 91.34cm to 1.0866m. Then if the wheel is inclined then the acceleration
of gravity would be slowed by a factor of cos xº * 9.81m/s.
An example is cos30 * 9.81m/s =

If you'd be agreeable to working together on an invention then maybe thx4 might be interested in working with us. I've seen his work. It could be scaled to a 30cm diameter wheel. I think testing will show it can work.

[Tarsier79]

Well that makes it clear, you can go back to 2d plainer study. I will continue investigating 3d volume systems.

I expect not to see a post from you here for your post can only be that of a troll.

So if your hypothesis cannot stand up to healthy debate you resort to name calling? I would not try to stop any investigations into any area. You are the one that wanted everyone to "share", and advocates the sharing of knowledge so that we all don't waste our time exploring the same worn paths.

Z is not a magical plane full of wonders.

Anyway, I do wish you well in discovering something in Z. I will no longer "troll" you on any thread.

[agor95]

Hi All

I am not indifferent to other members world view.

I looked at projecting this AP 3-axis device to a 2 dimension shadow form.

All that has been said is true with 2d mechanics, inertia and gravity conservation.

However there looks like another extra force exists that increases the main wheels rotation in the 3d world. This happens in Quadrant 1.

Naturally I looked at Quadrant 3 that is 180 degrees from the first to find the counter effect.
There is one put smaller so they do not cancel.

Could this be the source of Perpetual Motion? Some will shout NO!

Note. There are many examples of Wheel within Wheel. Any rolling object on a disc seen flat is a 'within wheel' in a main wheel. Just all the axis are parallel.

P.S. In a support forum one should support. So I appologise for any reaction to any anti-supportive posters. Best to try and post positives or not at all.

P.P.S. Now back to proving the above question.

[Soon]

Just an FYI (for your information), what I mentioned was a business proposition. A working wheel in a wheel
is something that a business would be interested in purchasing the patent rights. And people working together
would be co-inventors.
With this graph/spreadsheet, it is a calculus problem from my textbook. With a fixed cost to manufacture
each unit and each unit is sold for more than it costs to make it, how many units have to be sold to break even?
And it is your decision to make. And with what the graph shows, it would be as an example if 10,000 units were
to be made there is the cost of the material, misc. parts to buy and then setting up machines, etc. for making lots
of 100 as an example. And would a business want to buy the patent rights for a working wheel? If they think it'll
make them money which it should then there would be interest in it.
And why co-inventors. It would be because each person would be contributing something. And you could still
pursue your own ideas.

[preoccupied]

Would you like to make a deal with me? My designs will work. I think you are barking up the wrong tree working on AB_Hammer's idea. I need help building my models. Review my designs and maybe you can decide to build one and I will give you some profits. I don't want Gravity to be used a lot for energy though, it would only be used in emergencies such as black outs and global warming and every effort should be made not to use gravity for energy. I think my spring lever design with the gear train has a lot of clues that I've heard talked about on Bessler's wheel. It has the peacocks tail on the left of the picture and weights line up at the bottom that's a clue that is known and the weights work in pairs on the right two weights at a time can fall although they are not interconnect it's two separate devices. I'm sure if Jim_Mich were still around I would already have confirmation that my ideas would work. You guys are not very enthusiastic. Well that's all I have got to say about business transactions. Don't mean to go off subject but someone did mention it.

[Soon]

I don't think agor95 is ab hammer. And this is where I've mentioned thx4. The work he has done
would allow for this to be an easy build for him. It would need gears to be precisely located to time
movements. And with me, I think any money I could make from an invention like this would help me
to set up my own wood shop where I'd like to live.
With Bessler's Wheel, while I'd get my 15 minutes of fame it's not my invention. So I'd need to be
able to build them and then sell them to make money off of Bessler's Wheel.
I have let Sina-Drums know that Bessler's Wheel might help Germany with its energy shortage. I
follow her on Instagram. When I supported her on Patreon I had told her about Bessler's Wheel. I
think that is why she covered the song Locomotive Breath by Jethro Tull. And since I am almost
finished with that build I am taking things easier.

[Soon]

agor, I would suggest considering this. If it works like I think it can, would you want to be left out?
Since a weight can only be lifted as high as another weight drops, the red and white show the path
for overbalance.
The black and white show the path for the under balance. What the lines to the right show
is how much one overbalanced weight can drop to lift another weight. This would mean the overbalanced
weight when lifting the top weight would be in balance with the opposing under balanced weight.
And this means that when passing top center the top wheel in a wheel would need to be rotated 180º.
I know, how simple and easy can something get? Right? I don't think any easier really.
When the wheel in a wheel is rotating upwards, if that wheel has its own axis then that axis is the center of
its balance/CoG. Then when a wheel is rotated to its overbalanced position, then that increases the amount of
torque because of leverage.
And if the wheel at top is rotated so it is lifted 5cm, then the weight lifting it needs to drop 5cm. And if
the descending weights are overbalanced, then that extra force is what would lift the top weight to its ob
position. And I think testing will verify that I know my math.
And agor, it is up to you. You originated the wheel in a wheel in this thread. This is where if some of us
work together we might actually make some money from it. With most people, they'd say from the weight's
lowest position on the wheel to its highest point. But if it rotates at the top then a lot of energy will be
conserved as the wheel it's in rotates it to the top. Where timing its rotation would matter.

agor, if you were agreeable then thx4 might be interested. If not then I have an invention to build after I finish
Bessler's Wheel. With this, a 3 way split works for me and then I wouldn't feel guilty about it. And in a public
forum people should be willing to consider a collaborative effort. Especially if it leads to a working machine.

[agor95]

Hi All

I am working on the 3 dimensional axis tilted 'within wheel' device in this thread.

The 2d plainer device being posted that is interwoven with my postings will need it's own thread.
It appears the 'within wheels' are rotating with the same axis as the main wheel.

So it does not operated using the key aspect being studied here.

Regards

[agor95]

Hi All

This is a test run showing the graphing layout I plan to use.

To test any calculations are correct any action in velocity needs a counter in position.

Like with a pendulum a drop in Potential Energy needs an increase in Kinetic Energy for the total energy in the system to be conserved.

So the Red line needs to be zero. Which shows no work is being done for the time being evaluated.

Regards

[agor95]

Hi All

You may remember I posted a few 'Eliminate' entries. Which reduce Bessler's successful Wheel to a Pendulum exploit.
So his wheel increased it's momentum. Therefore it's energy within grows over time.

Yet here I am looking at math's that conserves energy over time.

Talk about making live difficult.

I bet nobody has taken this route in a while or at all.

Regards

[agor95]

Hi All

This a a simple HTML test rig in the zip file.

Let me know if it works.

You should see a pendulum swinging from right to left from horizontal and a graph below.
The graph shows the Potential Energy, Kinetic Energy and Total System Energy in joules.

Behind this test rig is some work on Lagrangian & Hamiltonian math's.

P.S. This is a base rig that can be expanded into a moving pivot example and then onto 3 dimensions.

Regards

[agor95]

Let me know if it works.

You should see a pendulum swinging from right to left from horizontal and a graph below.
The graph shows the Potential Energy, Kinetic Energy and Total System Energy in joules.

Members have voiced the opinion that a simulation works as programmed.
Also it's an approximation and only a physical device is accurate.
Then of cause adding another dimension does not change anything magically.

All these are true. One should always look at the details.

For example this Simple Pendulum Rig is a little unpleasant.

Putting the rational to the term 'unpleasant' it the tricky part. The best I can do is 'assumptions'.
The more there are the more unpleasant it is being.

Regards

[agor95]

Hi All

Here is a little update that has a AP 3 arms and a simple pendulum combined.

The two graphs below show some of the energy present in the system.

Same as usual unzip the HTML file and run to see the graphs and dynamics.

Regards