Cutting corners

[agor95]

So that means , the mass can fall from the outer radius to the inner radius , and the mass can fall from the inner radius to the outer radius , is it strange to say they climb by falling ?

You are on the right path. There are issues to get your head around.

Keep on going - good analysis.

[johannesbender]

Im not done posting yet... 😉

[johannesbender]

Now all of this is good in my opinion , having the mechanical ability to cross over distances like skipping ,and not needing to traverse across the distance by moving the mass along that distance seems like a good solution for the lifting to take place "free of charge".

However as always the problems never just magickly ends ,so before i continue onward to the next problem , i would like to just show what i meant with the arms being such as that the principle that enables a roberval to operate in a manner which makes the position of the masses negligible.
The arms i drew represents that principle , and are to be similar to the function of the arms on these roverbals shown , such that the position of a mass along any of the A arms and the position of a mass along any of the B arms is negligible to the force acquired from them.

[Sam Peppiatt]

johannesbender,
jb, the rollers / discs are the "Short Cut" you need to lift the weights back up. With the aid of the toggles of coarse--Sam

[JUBAT]

Is this like one of those deals where the roller rolls on a smaller protrusion around the axle and builds up speed then when the larger outer circumference touches something it takes off like a bat outta hell?

[Sam Peppiatt]

JUGAT,
No. Nothing like that. It's like having a drum at 9:00 & 3:00, then the discs roll around inside of the drum as the wheel turns----Sam

[JUBAT]

Okay that makes sense. That's probably a key part of the prank...keep the weights in motion so they can never park. Forgive my skepticism...im calling Bessler's wheel a prank until it can be proven that it wasnt.

In your opinion weights are continually rolling from side to side to sustain the motion?

[Sam Peppiatt]

Right. The rollers don't turn the wheel, all they can do is provide the lifting force(s) to lift the weights-------------Sam

[JUBAT]

That being the case, a thought just popped into my head...lets say we have a track for the discs and the track is a square with inwardly curved sides. Release a roller somewhere near the top so that it rolls along the curved edge as that curved edge itself is travelling over the top. Once the weight goes over to the other side, it latches until its turn comes up again. 3 rollers 4 sides.

Nice prank.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Sure, give it a try---------------------------------------------Sam

[johannesbender]

johannesbender,
jb, the rollers / discs are the "Short Cut" you need to lift the weights back up. With the aid of the toggles of coarse--Sam

Sam , up next is an example and explanation of the next problem i had to solve , this one took me most of a year to come up with a solution i thought fits the requirements.

ex3.png

While the principle to skip the distance lifts from the the outer to the inner radius and from the inner to the outer radius was solved for me , another problem presented itself.

If the arm at 12 o'clock were to follow along the outer radius as the weight's torque drove it towards 6 o'clock in a CCW direction , and if i drew the arm at angled intervals , as drawn in the image , the arm along with the weight would end up at the bottom of the outer radius , so this problem as can be seen is obvious.

If this was to be a solution of how to lift the masses in to position , then suddenly while it seemed brilliantly solved in the previous instance , it actually turned out to have been unsolved and stupid 180 degrees further in this instance lol.

I thought and thought for month after month how to solve it , i cant rotate the arm that would take a massive amount of energy to torque them around , i cant cancel their torque that seems impossible because i cant juggle around with another weight added to cancel and then disappear from the system , i could only find one free solution for how to lift the mass now back to the top of the arms problem.

ex4.png

Which is this example i have drawn out , instead of trying to use energy i came to the solution that the mass must drop/fall from the bottom of a top arm like at A , to the top of a bottom arm like at B, and presto the lift would be accomplished by another free gravity solution , which again is like saying the mass climbed by falling.

But....its not the end of problems ...again haha.

[Sam Peppiatt]

I'm not sure-------------jb I guess the falling weight would have more momentum. But, but how to lift the falling weight? Maybe you have that figured out anyway, keep it going----------------------Sam

[agor95]

Hello jb

You are not alone working through these problems. If you don't mind I pondered this area for some time.

If you consider the outer position is on the right and the inner position is on the left in the image below.

The pendulum on the right is prevented dropping so it can only reach the bottom by rotating the frame.
The bottom pendulum can freely rotate up to the left position. Then is prevented rotating after the left position until it arrives at the top.

So the right outer position ends up at the inner position on the left.

The frame looks balanced in this frame rotation position.

The thought is could the top mass move across from it's current location towards the right position while still being connected to the frame?

Such an action would put the frame out of balance causing clockwise rotation.

All the Best

[agor95]

This is a draft of the path from top to right.

It needs adjusting so the CoM of the pendulum arm is the same distance to it's pivot point at all times.

If the frame was not rotating then the top pendulum would fall by it's own weight.

That would change the frame's CoM to cause clockwise rotation.

That would cause a small boost every 90 degrees.

All the Best

[johannesbender]

I'm not sure-------------jb I guess the falling weight would have more momentum. But, but how to lift the falling weight? Maybe you have that figured out anyway, keep it going----------------------Sam

Lifting the weight on to the inner smaller wheel/radius and on to the outer larger wheel/radius from the smaller inner wheel/radius was solved , getting a weight back to the top of the arm was also solved , that's what i was showing .....

But then it brought other problems which puts another rut in the road , i will show later on tomorrow .