Besslers prime mover and its enabler.

[Roxaway59]

Hi agor95 I sometimes ponder on such things as quantum physics even if I have no place doing so. It wouldn't surprise me if things happened instantaneously because if it so happens that time has no meaning there then all kinds of things would be possible. The entire universe could be made from a single particle that has the ability to be everywhere at the same time. Posting my WM2D simulation now.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

I experimented with this WM2D version for a while. It wasn't easy to make and I ended up using different values for weights and as expected it didn't want to go over unity. It was possible however to get its movement very similar to Algodoo. As you can see I only made one crossbar so I will put more on it tomorrow.

Graham

[agor95]

... I sometimes ponder on such things as quantum physics even
if I have no place doing so. It wouldn't surprise me
if things happened instantaneously because

if it so happens that time has no meaning there then all kinds of things would be possible.

The entire universe could be made from a single particle that has the ability to be everywhere at the same time.

Posting my WM2D simulation now.
...

Do you get royalties for the word 'if' ?
And who has the royalties for 'Then' and 'Else'?

Quantum Physics is a ponderous thing. There is no place for anyone to understand it really. It does produce results but why and when does the predictions it accurately states become absurd result?
When events happen instantaneously it's because 1. It is a way of keeping away from infinities & 2. We can not prove how the event happen.

Time has meaning regardless to it's reality. Absolute zero has a meaning which can not happen in reality.
So I don't worry about the meaning or meaningless of a word breaking down the Universe this week; Now next week is another matter.

As it happens a Noble Prise winner for physics stated that maybe electrons are the same particle moving forwards and backwards in time. That is why they are all the same.

He did like winding people up for being square.

Regards

[Roxaway59]

For a minute there agor95 I thought you was going to say Gosub.

There is a state change in the mechanical device. However the excess energy is from the swinging motion.

Could a swinging motion be replicated with an electric against the magnetic field?

This sounds like you are trying to do electrically what Bessler did mechanically.

There are lots of people over the years who claim to have made devices that give more energy than they put in and Besslers story is one of only a few I have taken seriously.

I do think its strange though that given that we are absolutely surrounded by energy mainly in the form of atomic energy that people would think it preposterous that energy may be easily obtained.

Heavier elements are being discovered as time goes on and some of these elements have strange properties. It would not surprise me in the least if someone comes up with a way of accessing energy easily and safely from atoms. Nor would it surprise me if this has already been done and then buried.

The capacitor is a wonderful thing and it relates to a lot of other wonderful things to do with energy. In fact it is hard to think of an energy device that doesn’t have two pieces of material in close proximity that is doing something strange. Lets list a few with plates.

Capacitors have plates.
Batteries have plates
Valves have plates
The diodes in solar panels have plates
Lots of semiconductors have plates
The theory of extracting zero point energy has plates
Hydrogen production has plates
Nuclear reactions take place because of plates
It just goes on and on.

There is of course an electric field between these plates and in the case of the cathode ray tube this has plates that are designed to focus the electron beam and its called an electrostatic lens. Its job is to focus the electron beam to a sharp point on the phosphor coated screen.

Lets imagine a wheel that is basically a plate. You put a plate next to one side of the wheel which makes a capacitor then you charge up the capacitor in such a way that one side of the wheel has more electrons. Electrons do have weight so in theory the side of the wheel with more electrons is now heavier. In the real world that wheel is not going to turn but what about in a simulator? I suspect that it still wouldn’t turn because of other forces but I don’t know that for sure. If it did the electrons would just keep on automatically repositioning themselves.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

Sounds like you are delving into quantum computing agor95. I still have trouble with my calculator.

Graham

[agor95]

...
Capacitors have plates.
Batteries have plates
Valves have plates
The diodes in solar panels have plates
Lots of semiconductors have plates
The theory of extracting zero point energy has plates
Hydrogen production has plates
Nuclear reactions take place because of plates
It just goes on and on.
...

My dinner has plates ;-)

I like yourself keeping away from the quantum mechanical formulation [maths].
So we can work on something in our life time.

Regards

[Sam Peppiatt]

Right-----------cows can't fart, dogs can't spit and you can only rape a virgin once--------------Sam

[Sam Peppiatt]

Graham,
To offer something a bit more constructive. Looks like now; the weights should move in a near prefect circle, offset upwards towards 12:00 but, shifted in the direction of rotation by about 45 degrees. Is there any way you could you simulate this? I'm fairly certain that is how Bessler's wheel worked----Sam

[Roxaway59]

Sam I've been trying to simulate this with 4 crossbars in WM2D and its taken me half the day because WM2D doesn't like it for some reason. When I finally got it something like the simulation is running slower and jerkier than I've ever seen. I think I will have to just post it so that others can analyze it better. I don't know if its just my old copy of WM2D or what but I would never be able to analyze it the way it is.

Graham

[Sam Peppiatt]

You're right, it probably can't be done--------------Sam

[Roxaway59]

Here is the 4 crossbar version in WM2D I was talking about.

To be honest it needs a good check over by members that know how to get the best out of it. I wasn't able to run it properly because it was too slow and it didn't react well when I lowered the accuracy.

As far as I can tell it will just grind to a halt but what I like about it is the action of the mechanisms and the fact that it behaves oddly in Algodoo for reasons unknown.
Graham

[Sam Peppiatt]

Graham,
You have no clue what I'm talking about. Not a godam clue. It's like talking to a post--------------Sam

[Roxaway59]

Sam if you are not going to provide a drawing then you must provide a very detailed explanation of what you mean bearing in mind that I have used 4 different weights coloured black, blue, red and yellow.

You are right that I don't know exactly what you mean without that detailed explanation or a drawing. What I am saying is that I cant replicate the one I made in Algodoo with WM2D because the one I have just posted will not run properly in my version of WM2D so therefore any modifications I make to it wont work properly either.

What I can do is build one with a single crossbar if you or someone else can provide a drawing or detailed explanation.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

Just as a reminder here is the very first post I put up about 6 months ago.

Hi I’m new to the forum so I would first like to introduce myself if I may. I’ve never been on any forum before so it may take me a while to get use to things. I first started thinking about gravity wheels when I was in my twenties and that is about 40 years ago now. The only qualifications I have is in electronics and I very often use that to compare with mechanical devices like oscillators. To be honest I have been on the forum many times and I have read many comments of all kinds from people on here. Some are good, and I can tell that I’m thinking similarly to the person writing it and others not so good. A lot of people on the forum have a knowledge in physics and maths that is way past my capability and I will say right from the outset that my thinking tends to be more artistic. That being said I do have a certain amount of understanding in physics and maths. I will eventually be sharing my thoughts on this subject as well as pictures, simulations and videos but please bear in mind that if you reply very technically about them I wont understand a word of it. A lot of the time I will ask if people can replicate things I have done in their more modern simulators to see how they behave. I will share ideas that I believe have real merit or some kind of significance to the Bessler puzzle. My aim here is not just to help find what Bessler did but also hopefully to give a boost to some people on here that have become despondent. I believe that their despondency comes from having too many circular thoughts and the need to explore different ways of looking at the problem. Now and then I have read comments where people address this issue and talk about things in a more grounded way and this is what I like. As I have said, I will be sharing my ideas eventually but here are a few simple believes that I have about his wheel. I don’t believe that his wheel was overly complicated and that raises questions in itself like how can a mechanism be both simple and illusive at the same time. I think the answer to that question lies with the prime mover. Its the prime mover that is simple and the rest of the mechanism takes advantage of it or to put it another way it amplifies what the prime mover does. I have a theory about what the prime mover is. It is a simple mechanism that has the ability to overbalance a bigger weight but then automatically place itself back or shift to a higher level. I’m sure that there will be a lot of people here that know how this can be done but maybe don’t know how to utilise the effect. I am working on a wheel at the moment that I hope will do just what I have stated. If it doesn’t work I will still be sharing it with you because I believe that it, or part of it, is along the lines of what Bessler did and I have reasons why I think this is so. One of those reasons is that it answers the clue that Bessler gave about the weight rising rapidly to the top. On my wheel the mechanism is such that the weight goes from near 6 o’clock to 12 o’clock very quickly. This is partly fact because I have already proven that it works in principal and part theory in that for the wheel to work the prime mover must do its job. If I am right in this approach then us working together could solve the problem.

Graham

[Fletcher]

Here's your basic design Rox .. I tidied it up a bit and simplified it so it runs well ( accuracy still 100 fps ) - note, I dumped the polygon slots structures you had made and replaced them with menu slotted joints ( from the side menu ) ..

You should be able to drag over one side or another and copy&paste to make more sets and try the 8 arm variety etc ..

My observations are that with the motor set to -15 rpm for 2 seconds the arrangement is given a set amount of momentum and RKE - then the motor is switched off and it coasts - it does not accelerate and slowly and consistently winds down losing rpm on average ( as you know ) - the reason imo is that altho Air Resistance is OFF, so that there are no friction losses, there are still system energy losses i.e. the dampener bleeding a small amount of energy and the deformation of collision losses ( elasticity - noise, heat ) against the stops - these rob the system of its initial energy input which is manifest as a slowing of RPM and momentum and RKE ..

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