Besslers prime mover and its enabler.

[Tarsier79]

I don't agree there are many "faults". There is one. Two things happened in Besslers wheel, and we know how one works.

We have all built or simmed many mechanisms. One doesn't run because of this, another doesn't run because of something else... If only that one did this, etc. But the truth is they all don't work because of one thing. That one thing is a lack of energy.

Everyone's understanding of the beast is different and usually evolves over time. It is often said, my pet hate: "it doesn't break any laws of physics". If it doesn't break any laws, it can't work. Besslers wheel by its definition breaks the laws of thermodynamics. It starts of with an amount of energy, it does some work, then it is left with the same energy.... It is either that, or it used energy from a power source, and/or it was fraud. Before you mention it, gravity is not a power source.

This scales from Besslers entire wheel down to the specific requirements for each mechanism and weight set. Each mechanism has no purpose, unless it does. The only purpose that matters is for it to create energy.

The second thing that happened in the wheel is the energy that ended up as PE(potential energy) was converted to rotation using OB(over-balance).


Ultimately, we seek the answer to any one of the following:

• OU

• A viable power source

• A viable method of fraud

Also, as usual, I reserve the right to be wrong, and will happily be proven wrong at any time on any matter.

I like your style of writing. It is easy to read and understand. Thank you.

[preoccupied]

Before you mention it, gravity is not a power source.

Gravity is a power source. Forcing levers to work against themselves over a constant horizontal plane of consistent force of gravity is an obstacle. Obviously levers are the issue because gravity falls, it is used for energy all of the time. Gravity is totally energy and from my research as a kid in artificial gravity a lot of heat goes into making gravity, something that would be drained out of the core of the planet if gravity wheels did all of the work for humanity. Geothermal extraction and gravity wheels are super bad for the core of Earth because nuclear decay energy is not the source of heat in the core of the planet.

Do you have an opinion Tarsier79 on my newest drawing?

If the position of the pulleys string on the levers can allow the driving lever to simultaneously shift both other two pulleys, even if they don't shift all of the way at once, perhaps in more of the turn they would, it would be overbalanced. Once you have one working design, if this is one, then others would be easier to find, if Bessler had many working concepts.
https://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/view ... 30#p207630

[Roxaway59]

Hi Tarsier79, nice to hear from you.

I think saying that you cant get energy from gravity is a little like saying you cant feel the energy from some ones football boot after the ball he launched lands full in your face. You are basically splitting hairs and you know it. We get lots of powerful energy indirectly from gravity.

If anyone successfully makes an over balanced wheel with a newly discovered principal it will be gravity that will be driving it but of course it would only be doing the same thing a water wheel does after one side becomes heavier than the other so no laws of physics broke there over gravity just doing what it does.

As for the mechanism well that's a different story we will have to find it first.

I don't agree that we should just be thinking about one very simple over looked mechanism because I believe such a mechanism would have been found a long time ago. The only doubt that I have over saying that is to do with the fact that some times under the right conditions simple things can do something odd when they are revolving on a wheel.

Having said that I would still be surprised if it was something simple like that. I too would be happy to be proved wrong about that.

If one day someone comes up with proof that Bessler stashed a hundred squirrels in his 12 foot wheel and the special mechanism was a stick held on their head by an elastic band with a nut dangling on the end of it then to say I would be disappointed is putting it mildly.

Then it turned out that his plan to finely increase the power came from a blow torch at the bottom of the wheel aimed at the rear end of the squirrels would be another bitter blow.

We could all try and save a little dignity by collectively walking into Oxford University to make a group announcement to their head physics teacher that we have together spent decades robustly testing the laws of physics and have concluded that they are all sound.

He would no doubt look up at us with a blank stare from behind his oak wood desk and say “we know that you idiot”.

Then we would turn and walk out to the sound of our own footsteps never to think of gravity wheel ever again.

Lets hope it doesn’t end that way Tarsier79 and as my old manager use to say to me “Graham life would be boring without problems to solve”.

Graham

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi Graham,
I think I've had enough excitement! Tarsier; is an inspiration! You just know he can't be right, there has to be away to get it to work----------------Sam

[Fletcher]

It's simple really .. dance the two-step .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL7DgP_y9G0

1. build an overbalanced wheel from "weights" that always has a positive torque - so gravity force is always pulling it down on one side ..

2. arrange step 1. in such a manner that the PE of it's internal weights is continually restored, with no additional external energy input cost ..

;7)

[Sam Peppiatt]

Right, how difficult could it be-----------------Sam

[Fletcher]

Sam, you and I are in agreement - it's embarrassingly simple - embarrassing because it's so hard to think that simple .. we know Karl was amazed no one else had built one like B's., before B, once Karl saw the inside workings and the penny dropped for him - so simple that others could easily build it, even a carpenters boy ..


ETA .. just about anyone could understand it and build it once shown, but not anyone could think it ..

[Sam Peppiatt]

Fletcher,
Yes, yes, the basic idea of it is probably fairly simple but, the building of it isn't that easy. Not, as easy as they said it was------Sam

[Robinhood46]

It wasn't easy to walk to the nearest spring, to get water.
Everyone was going to different springs, because nobody knew where the nearest spring was.
There were no maps showing the location of the springs. There was no ancient knowledge indicating where the nearest spring was, there was just a myth that maybe, just maybe, there was a spring that could be reached in half as much time.
We've spent years searching for the spring, most people have abandoned the search and concluded the spring doesn't actually exist.

Walking to the spring doesn't get harder, just because you take longer to find it, you just need to know in what direction you place one foot in front of the other.
There is no reason Bessler and Karl are wrong, about it being simple, only our desire to justify our inability to find the answer.

[Fletcher]

It's a good analogy RH .. that's why myself and others spend so much time on meaning of translations and witness reports etc .. we could go it alone with no thought or cognizance to what B. wrote or said, or any witness etc, and hope we can think that simple for ourselves - or, we could only look for "clues and codes" and only follow them, as we interpret them to be given by B. .. or we can do a bit of both in the hope that something helps light a path to your spring analogy ( X marks the spot on the map ) ..

Both roads might not lead to Rome but both must lead to a very simple ideology of his mechanics for his runners - I hope I can think that simple to recognize it whichever branch in the road presents it eventually to someone ..

[Tarsier79]

You are basically splitting hairs and you know it.

No split hairs over here mate. I said "Gravity is not an energy source". Gravity does not create energy. Using an analogy in electronics, Gravity is like a capacitor. It doesn't create energy, it only stores what you put into it. Kicking a football, the energy doesn't come from gravity or the ball... It comes from you. You put the energy into the capacitor. When it smacks you in the head, gravity didn't add energy to the ball. Gravity is merely a transformer of energy.

Sorry, a bit disjointed...

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi Tarsier,
There is energy in falling weights, a lot of energy, kinetic energy. But, you're on the right track. The thing that makes it so difficult; is, how to find a way reuse it. How to reuse that same energy, over and over again--------------Sam

[Roxaway59]

Hi Tarsier79, whilst saying you cant get energy from gravity may be technically true I still say you are splitting hairs.

Its the force of gravity that gives us the tides and the energy we can collect from that and it plays its part in geothermal energy.

If anyone makes a working wheel the public will look at it and say blimey it works off gravity. When you stand there and explain to them all the technicalities of why it isn't gravity that's making it work they will begin to snore and when you move on to say who actually designed and built the machine they will snore even louder.

The only thing they are going to care about is that it gives them free energy.

I want to post a wheel design that demonstrates some of the things I have been talking about.

Graham

[Robinhood46]

We don't know what causes gravity and we don't know what turned Bessler's wheel.
Maybe another way of looking at it, is to say that the force that will be causing the wheel to turn, is the same force that causes gravity.
They are both the effect of the unknown force, one doesn't cause the other.

[Roxaway59]

This wheel design does something that is unusual in Algodoo so I want to show it and see what others make of it.

Initially it is set to an accuracy of 480. Run the simulation then after the wheel has settled down turn the motor off. You will see that the speed slowly increases.

Now reset the simulation then go into settings and change the accuracy to 960. Run the simulation again then turn the motor off and this time you will see that it begins to slow down.

Now turn the motor back on and take the rpm up to 20. Now turn the motor off and you will see this time the speed begins to increase.

I want to write more about the action of this wheel later but I will leave it there for now.
Graham