Posted by Scott Ellis (216.87.95.64) on March 22, 2003 at 00:44:51:
In Reply to: The Wheels Secret, revealed posted by David on March 20, 2003 at 16:20:44:
Hi David,
Thanks a lot for this and all your other great posts lately. Your observation about the recurring "fluid" theme in Bessler's Apologia is very intriguing, and quite well founded. Thanks for sharing your insight!
I have long believed that Fluid Dynamics is a great place to look for an as yet undetected PM principle. The science of Fluid Dynamics is still a relatively new discipline, and it is by no means completely understood. In fact, it was only about 100 years ago that the Wright Brothers exploited a previously unknown principle of Fluid Dynamics to achieve their "impossible" flying machine.
Also, George Airy's conclusions about certain conditions under which a perpetual motion is mathematically possible were reached after studying the work of Robert Willis. Willis was studying the human voice organ and did experiments with air passing over inclined plates.
Another thing to consider is the fact that pumps, bellows, hydraulics, and many other "fluid" themes seem to occur quite often in Bessler's Maschinen Tractate. I'm sure Mikey Ned won't mind if I use a survey he worked on to compile some quick statistics... (Thanks Mike!)
Total plates in MT: 146
Number of plates depicting various characteristics:
Characteristic: # of plates
------------------------------------Water ~42
Air ~17
# of pumps
1 ~10
2 ~5
? ~2Pump or Bellows ~44
(note: totals here are rough and categories are not mutually exclusive, but you get the idea... Bessler was QUITE interested in fliud dynamic concepts...)
Yet another related point here is the fact that Leibniz's first reaction upon hearing about the Bessler wheel was this: he surmised that it might be powered by compressed air. This demostrates that the technology to use compressed air surely existed in Bessler's time. Although it was admittedly a new and specialized art, it was definitely not out of the question in Leibniz's mind. Therefore, I would have to respectfully disagree with MrTim's assessment on this matter...
Now David, regarding the particular hydraulic concept you propose, it is very interesting! I like the idea that the carefully timed change in orientation of the 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock weights does not affect the net pressure in the "heart" of the machine (as you describe). Therefore the resultant gravitational pumping of more pressure into the "heart" would help overcome other losses.
The problem I see is this: when the pair of weights is aligned vertically, I think the top weight will be slightly closer to the axle than the bottom weight, since this is the configuration with the least potential energy (the pressure in the "heart" is constant). This would create a negative static imbalance of the wheel, or resistance to turning in the desired direction. This would mean that the 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock shift that you envision would actually only serve to "re-balance" the device if it were turned by application of an external force...
But these are just my opinions... it would really help to have some diagrams! Dave, I encourage you to draw out your idea and publish it here on the disussion board. Rainer, anyone else out there want to help out with this? Please be my guest!
...
Finally, here are some physicsweb.org links that help put our real understanding of Fluid Dynamics in perspective:
Falling objects: new twists on an old problem
http://physicsweb.org/article/news/2/7/20/1
Flutter and tumble in fluids
http://physicsweb.org/article/world/12/4/7/1
Best,
Scott
: Sorry for the daring title. I've been asked by a few people ( maybe it was just grim) how Bessler could have faked his wheel. I didn't really give the mechanics of it a lot of thought, but John Collins actually gave me an answer. Though, of course I am not saying it is the answer, but it is an answer. I'll site 3 versions of it where one will show how to fake it. 2 how it is possible it actually gave back some energy, and three how perhaps it was possible it was a free energy type of machine. The following also makes some sense of other details I don't quite understand as how one wheel needed to be tied down around the axel and then released where the others needed first a push. These two types seem completely opposite, but maybe they were the same and one just used "door locks" John Collins wrote the following,
: >Gottfried
: , one of the most celebrated scientists of the time (and undoubtedly comparable to Newton although his work extended over his whole life rather than the few years as a young man, attributable to Newton)and he took up his cause. It is interesting to see the progress of Liebniz' conviction that Bessler's machine was genuine. Those who have read my book will recall that the story of Leibniz, was demonstrated through the numerous letters he wrote to other witnesses and examiners. He was at first sceptical but eventually agreed that the machine was a gravity wheel but not true perpetual motion.
: What I believe Leibniz meant by this w takes next to nothing to move weight side to side. This being said this example is the most simple of a hydralic system.
: 2. Perhaps Bessler found an optimum arrangement of pistons/and weights that allowed the movement of the wheel to give back energy to the main cylinder. Not quite free energy but a very long lasting "wound up device" Perhaps a "swastika" or other geometric arrangement.
: 3. He found an optimum arrangement where all energy was given back plus more. Perhaps by using the heat of friction on the cylinder and expanding gasses. At any rate, a free energy machine, but in all versions NOT JUST a wheel that ran on gravity. Hence fuffilling Leibniz's idea.
: What do you think?
: Dav