Re: Vector

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Posted by ovyyus (203.26.14.3) on April 20, 2003 at 17:33:53:

In Reply to: Re: Vector posted by David on April 20, 2003 at 11:39:38:

Hi David,

I think Bessler could only drive the weights within his wheel by one of 3 methods: True PM or Hidden Fraud or Thermo-Mechanical.

As I've said, I think a 'true PM' solution to be highly improbable. Fraud is also improbable given the circumstances. That only leaves thermo-mechanical means as the driving force within the wheel.

Bessler used every resource at his disposal in order to solve his problem and collect his reward. We must remember that reward was the motivation that lay behind Bessler's success. He explored everything in his search including various heat transfer systems.

For his solution to be classed as 'true PM' I think it had to harness a thermal source that remained mysterious to Bessler. But I think he was wary of how it might be classified by scientists of the day, hense his rigid sales conditions in order to protect his reward.

I do not know whether his system employed air or fluid or something else. Maybe he could use any method as long as the primary thermal source was not destroyed.

In his later life he offered a water fountain that "leaps continuously from still water". I doubt he used water in his large wheels but maybe he could adapt his system to various transfer mediums.

I don't know how Bessler's wheels operated - yet. But if I were to base my search solely on the probabilities of success, my money would be on a brilliant environmental thermo-mechanical system. Bessler was a genius, no doubt about that.

Regards, ovyyus.

IMO,

: I of course agree with you completely. I haven't seen much input from anyone else except Scott and John Collins on my idea that he used compressed air or water to drive the imbalance of the weights. It seems to me he hints at that in the clues he left. What do you think?

: Sincerely,
: David
: : If Herr Orffyre did not rewrite the laws of physics and if he was not a fraud (his demonstrations certainly appear to discount fraud) then what method did he employ to drive his wheel?

: : I too have spent many years building and learning and have come to the conclusion that Bessler's solution was probably not what most PM enthusiasts believe it to be.

: : He said it himself - it's pointless to attempt the overbalanced wheel. Why?

: : Bessler was paranoid that once his secret was known he would not recieve payment from the buyer. Why? If it was a purely gravity/mechanical system of leveraging weights wouldn't his solution, no matter how 'simple' or 'weak', be an earth shattering breakthrough? I would think so.

: : On the other hand if his solution involved some form of environmental interaction there would be endless arguement about how best to define his invention - he may have never seen his money.

: : Could it be possible that Bessler's secret involved an 'open' system of mobile weights that somehow gained force from environmental interaction? How many of Bessler's MT drawings depict 'open' mechanical systems? MT shows us he discounted nothing in his search for a solution, that's for sure.

: : My research has led me to broaden my studies. Stretch an elastic band for a simple example of an 'open' thermo-mechanical component. Heat can be radiated to or absorbed from the environment very simply.

: : I'm not claiming that Bessler used giant elastic bands connected to the weights inside his wheels, although who knows, but the point is there are very interesting areas of study other than purely gravity/mechanical systems that should not be overlooked and may lead us to a solution.

: : Heretical thoughts in a PM World :)

: : Regards, ovyyus.

: :
: : : The only reason I am posting this like this is because you asked. Murilo is too ignorant to understand why his machine won't work. I am not saying he is stupid, but he is ignorant. I could fully explain to him and anyone else why their machines won't work, but the lesson would be far more valuable learned if they just go ahead and build it and figure it out for themselves. Believe me, I've spent over six years in the grip of what I'll call the fever. John Collins has had it, an rests upon a few and completely undisputable principles. But coming to grips with them, seeing them and acknowledging them is something else. It can be hard to do if you have tunnel vision. I wouldn't have traded it for something else, and it was hard, but one will learn, if you are serious.

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Comments:	: Hi David, : I think Bessler could only drive the weights within his wheel by one of 3 methods: True PM or Hidden Fraud or Thermo-Mechanical. : As I've said, I think a 'true PM' solution to be highly improbable. Fraud is also improbable given the circumstances. That only leaves thermo-mechanical means as the driving force within the wheel. : Bessler used every resource at his disposal in order to solve his problem and collect his reward. We must remember that reward was the motivation that lay behind Bessler's success. He explored everything in his search including various heat transfer systems. : For his solution to be classed as 'true PM' I think it had to harness a thermal source that remained mysterious to Bessler. But I think he was wary of how it might be classified by scientists of the day, hense his rigid sales conditions in order to protect his reward. : I do not know whether his system employed air or fluid or something else. Maybe he could use any method as long as the primary thermal source was not destroyed. : In his later life he offered a water fountain that "leaps continuously from still water". I doubt he used water in his large wheels but maybe he could adapt his system to various transfer mediums. : I don't know how Bessler's wheels operated - yet. But if I were to base my search solely on the probabilities of success, my money would be on a brilliant environmental thermo-mechanical system. Bessler was a genius, no doubt about that. : Regards, ovyyus. : IMO, : : I of course agree with you completely. I haven't seen much input from anyone else except Scott and John Collins on my idea that he used compressed air or water to drive the imbalance of the weights. It seems to me he hints at that in the clues he left. What do you think? : : Sincerely, : : David : : : If Herr Orffyre did not rewrite the laws of physics and if he was not a fraud (his demonstrations certainly appear to discount fraud) then what method did he employ to drive his wheel? : : : I too have spent many years building and learning and have come to the conclusion that Bessler's solution was probably not what most PM enthusiasts believe it to be. : : : He said it himself - it's pointless to attempt the overbalanced wheel. Why? : : : Bessler was paranoid that once his secret was known he would not recieve payment from the buyer. Why? If it was a purely gravity/mechanical system of leveraging weights wouldn't his solution, no matter how 'simple' or 'weak', be an earth shattering breakthrough? I would think so. : : : On the other hand if his solution involved some form of environmental interaction there would be endless arguement about how best to define his invention - he may have never seen his money. : : : Could it be possible that Bessler's secret involved an 'open' system of mobile weights that somehow gained force from environmental interaction? How many of Bessler's MT drawings depict 'open' mechanical systems? MT shows us he discounted nothing in his search for a solution, that's for sure. : : : My research has led me to broaden my studies. Stretch an elastic band for a simple example of an 'open' thermo-mechanical component. Heat can be radiated to or absorbed from the environment very simply. : : : I'm not claiming that Bessler used giant elastic bands connected to the weights inside his wheels, although who knows, but the point is there are very interesting areas of study other than purely gravity/mechanical systems that should not be overlooked and may lead us to a solution. : : : Heretical thoughts in a PM World :) : : : Regards, ovyyus. : : : : : : : The only reason I am posting this like this is because you asked. Murilo is too ignorant to understand why his machine won't work. I am not saying he is stupid, but he is ignorant. I could fully explain to him and anyone else why their machines won't work, but the lesson would be far more valuable learned if they just go ahead and build it and figure it out for themselves. Believe me, I've spent over six years in the grip of what I'll call the fever. John Collins has had it, and I know of others. I don't know if it's been as intense for them (I'll explain) but I think it's been longer for John. Likening it to the gold rush fever. Last couple of years I haven't been as intense but for a while I did nothing but eat, live, and breath perpetual motion. Never trying to recreate someone elses work, always concieving my own ideas and then building them. And I will say, and I am not doing this to boast, what I came up with were far more pertainent than just about anything else I have seen.I explored many,- many areas. Each time I would think, this has to be it, this can't fail, and each time I had a blind eye to an area that needed to be adressed. I even sacrificed my career, and didn't have much of a social life. Do I have regrets? Not really. Although I traded a lot of time, I gave myself the best education I could have. With my explorations I read and absorbed as much about physics as I possibly could, and have become so adept at it that I could easily put myself up against any physicist, and have done so. In earnst, and in retrospect physics is actually a very easy subject because all of it (and of course I am talking about all of reality here) rests upon a few and completely undisputable principles. But coming to grips with them, seeing them and acknowledging them is something else. It can be hard to do if you have tunnel vision. I wouldn't have traded it for something else, and it was hard, but one will learn, if you are serious.
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