Re: Darren, sorry one last one


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Posted by Darren (208.143.232.66) on May 20, 2003 at 12:15:45:

In Reply to: Re: Darren, sorry one last one posted by Joel L. Lewis on May 20, 2003 at 11:37:50:

: Okay, pardon my grade-school level understanding of physics

No no, that's cool. This particular concept is extremely tough to get a handle on...

: but I think I'm missing something here. I thought that since the larger lever will be balanced regardless of how the smaller levers are positioned, there would be no effect on the torque-the larger lever will always come to rest at vertical.

Depends on how the larger lever is built into the system. If it's a "see-saw" then the position of the smaller weights definitely affects the larger lever. If it's something similar to http://www.besslerwheel.com/wwwboard/messages/952.html (or something like a balance scale you'd weight mass on in chemistry class) then the smaller weights don't affect the larger.

Basically think of it this way... if the smaller weights are attached, rest, pivot, or are connected *directly* to the ends of the larger lever then yes, the smaller will affect the larger... if the ends of the larger lever have platforms, trays, pans, etc. that are possibly wide but have a single base connection to the larger lever, and the tray is stabilized by some secondary connection to the center (as in the picture on the above link) then no, the position of the smaller won't affect the larger.

: I'm not trying to 'lift more than I drop':in fact, what I had in mind was something where, I hoped, the ballance of the system as a whole did NOT change.

That's the trick Joel... balance is needed to find OU, not imbalance :-)

:I agree with you that lifting with levers is a useless approach, but a wheel is nothing but an infinite series of levers-if you can't picture an idea returning a lever to the point at which it began, then don't even bother trying to turn a wheel with it!:-D I don't picture levers for the sake of 'motive power', but only because they simplify the conceptualization process for me.:-)

Okay... I'm probably just too literal... so if you say levers I picture levers :-) If you have a drawing of something different, something specific, I'd be more than happy to look at it and give you my honest opinion... as I'm sure most others on this forum would.

Later!
Darren


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