IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?

[WaltzCee]

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:59 pm    Post subject: re: IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHI

I for one am interested in what george1 has to say.
I believe he might be going in the right direction.
I also do not believe the laws of thermodynamics are correct. And have been shown as flawed.

I also do not believe the laws of thermodynamics are correct. And have been shown as flawed.

Could you supply third-party proof showing it's flawed.

Just Curious

Very soon. Hopefully in a week or 2.

Until then i leave you with this small gift.
https://youtu.be/dKCV8gzSlYw

It's been a couple weeks. Any news? I missed the first party, I was late to the second party,
I don't want to be late or miss the third party. Where is this 3rd party?

[George1]

Hi eccentrically1,
Please only answer my question: Do you accept the validity of STEP 1?
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Looking forward to your answer.
George

[George1]

Hi eccentrically1,
1) We are not talking for the present for the zigzag conception.
2) Please only answer my question: Do you accept the validity of STEP 1?
------------------------------
Looking forward to your answer.
George

[eccentrically1]

It's acceptable if it's not used to support your experiment.

[George1]

Hi eccentrically1,
Thank you for your reply.
Ok, there is an advance. You have accepted the validity of STEP 1. So let us then procede further to the next STEP 2.
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STEP 2.
1) Let us consider again the link https://www.knowledgeuniverseonline.com ... -plane.php
as it is very illustrative.
2) Let us assume at first that (a) the body moves, (b) G = 1N and (c) the force of friction is 0.5 N for example. The 0.5 N force of friction does not influence the fact that the body exerts a vertical downward force G = 1N on the inclined plane and at the same time the inclined plane on its behalf exerts a vertical upward force -G = - 1N on the body. In other words G=-G, that is, the two forces G and -G are opposite in direction and equal in magnitude and this magnitude is equal to 1N.
3) Let us assume now that (a) the body moves, (b) G = 1N and (c) the force of friction is 0.1 N for example. The 0.1 N force of friction does not influence the fact that the body exerts a vertical downward force G = 1N on the inclined plane and at the same time the inclined plane on its behalf exerts a vertical upward force -G = - 1N on the body. In other words G=-G, that is, the two forces G and -G are opposite in direction and equal in magnitude and this magnitude is equal to 1N.
4) Let us assume now that (a) the body moves, (b) G = 1N and (c) the force of friction is 0.00001 N for example. The 0.00001 N force of friction does not influence the fact that the body exerts a vertical downward force G = 1N on the inclined plane and at the same time the inclined plane on its behalf exerts a vertical upward force -G = - 1N on the body. In other words G=-G, that is, the two forces G and -G are opposite in direction and equal in magnitude and this magnitude is equal to 1N.
5) In one word, the value of the force of friction (the latter being either substantial or negligible) does not influence the fact that the body exerts a vertical downward force G = 1N on the inclined plane and at the same time the inclined plane on its behalf exerts a vertical upward force -G = - 1N on the body. In other words G=-G, that is, the two forces G and -G are opposite in direction and equal in magnitude and this magnitude is equal to 1N.
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Do you accept the validity of this STEP 2?
Looking forward to your answer.
George
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P.S. In our last explanation approach there is not a direct logical path towards the zigzag conception. The logical path is indirect. So you have to follow our step-by-step explaining procedure, that is, STEP 1 is followed by STEP 2, and STEP 2 is followed by STEP 3, etc.

[eccentrically1]

It's acceptable if it's not used to support your experiment.

[George1]

Hi eccentrically1,
Thank you for your reply.
You have accepted the validity of the previous STEP 1 and STEP 2. So let us proceed to the next STEP 3.
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STEP 3.
1) A body slides down a smooth inclined plane as shown in the previous STEP 1 and STEP 2.
2) Let us replace now the sliding touching surfaces with permanent magnet linear slides. There are no touching surfaces in this case.
3) In addition let us place the whole installation in a sealed airless glass (in order to see what happens inside) box.
4) Having in mind the above three items (as well as the previous steps 1 and 2) we can conclude that:
a) there is practically no friction, that is, it is extremely difficult to detect and measure friction even with most precise measuring devices;
b) there is practically no generation of heat, that is, it is extremely difficult to detect and measure generation of heat even with most precise measuring devices;
c) the body exerts a vertical downward force G = 1N on the inclined plane and at the same time the inclined plane on its behalf exerts a vertical upward force -G = - 1N on the body. In other words G=-G, that is, the two forces G and -G are opposite in direction and equal in magnitude and this magnitude is equal to 1N;
d) the last three sub-items (a), (b) and (c) are true/correct simultaneously.
------------------------------
Do you accept the validity of this STEP 3?
Looking forward to your answer.
George

[johannesbender]

c) the body exerts a vertical downward force G = 1N on the inclined plane and at the same time the inclined plane on its behalf exerts a vertical upward force -G = - 1N on the body.

i am pretty sure magnets do not exert an vertical alligned upwards force , especially not one equal to gravity.

[eccentrically1]

It's acceptable if it's not used to support your experiment.

How many more steps must we endure? I'm sure this is a waste of time. Once the experiment is in space, there aren't any means to initiate motion; it's effectively isolated from its environment. The zigzag concept is nullified.

[George1]

Hi eccentrically1,
Thank you for your reply.
You have accepted the validity of the previous steps 1, 2 and 3. This is good. So let us proceed then to the next STEP 4. It is the last one.
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1) Please look again at the zigzag experiment described in Figs. 4, 5, 5A and 6. Let us slightly modify this experiment.
2) Let us consider the case in which the coinciding axes of symmetry of (a) the black component and of (b) the T-shaped blue component are vertical. Both the black component and the T-shaped blue component are situated, let's say, at sea level.
3) The black component is fixed motionless to some horizontal (also motionless) surface.
4) Besides we add some stop, which fixes motionless the blue T-shaped component thus preventing its free falling. The distance between each blue ball and the entrance of the related zigzag segment s is, let's say, 1 meter.
5) There is no friction, that is, permanent magnet slides and airless environment are used everywhere, similar to the situation in the previous step 3.
6) Let us remove the stop, which keeps motionless the blue T-shaped component. As a result the blue T-shaped component starts free falling as its acceleration is g = 9.81 m/s2.
7) The blue T-shaped component covers the distance of 1 meter and after that the blue balls enter the black zigzag channels of the zigzag segment s.
8) After entering the zigzag segment s the blue balls start moving in a zigzag manner inside the zigzag channels of the black component, respectively.
9) It is evident therefore from the previous items 7 and 8 that each blue ball enters actually a series (a row) of consequtive inclined planes similar (or identical) to the inclined plane in the previous steps 1, 2 and 3.
10) While the blue balls move in a zigzag manner inside the zigzag black channels (a) the linear downward (vertical) velocity of the blue T-shaped component (the velocity of its center of mass) is V' and (b) the linear downward (vertical) acceleration of the T-shaped component (the acceleration of its center of mass) is g', where g > g'. Besides V' is the mean value of the linear downward (vertical) velocity of the blue T-shaped component (the velocity of its center of mass) and g' is the mean value of the linear downward (vertical) acceleration of the blue T-shaped component (the acceleration of its center of mass), respectively. Furthermore the time, necessary for the center of mass of the blue T-shaped component to cover the distance s, is T'.
11) After the blue balls leave/exit the zigzag black channels, the blue T-shaped component (as a whole unit) starts free falling again and its acceletation is again g = 9.81 m/s2.
12) Let us carry out just the same experiment with the linear variation of the device as described in Figs. 1, 2, 2A and 3. This second linear experiment ia absolutely identical to the zigzag one with the only difference that (a) there is friction (only!) inside the linear segment s and (b) there is a generation of heat, respectively. In this case the mean values of (a) the linear downward (vertical) velocity and (b) of the linear downward (vertical) acceleration are V" and g", respectively. Besides the time, necessary for the center of mass of the blue T-shaped component to cover the distance s, is T".
13) It is evident therefore that we can always choose a suitable combination of (a) magnitude of force of friction, (b) length of segments s and (c) number and shape of zigzags, for which V' = V", g' = g" and T' = T".
14) In one word, it is more than evident that the zigzag channels successfully imitate resistance, which is identical to friction and which does not generate heat.
--------------------------------
Do you accept the validity of this STEP 4?
Looking forward to your answer.
George

[eccentrically1]

It's acceptable but it's different from the original proposal.
So like I've said, you can't use these steps to support your experiment.
It's not a perpetual motion machine or a reactionless drive, in either case.

[George1]

Do you accept the validity of steps 1, 2, 3 and 4 entirely and without any objections?

[George1]

Hi eccentrically1,
I thought you had got the essence already, but obviously I was wrong. But it's OK, I will explain the things in an even more detailed manner.
-----------------------------------------------
1) Let us assume that in the straightline case the linear downward velocity of the blue component at the lower downward end/exit of the segment s is Vi.
2) Let us assume that in the zigzag case the linear downward velocity of the blue component at the lower downward end/exit of the segment s is Vr.
3) It is obvious that we can always choose a suitable combination of (a) number and shape of zigzags, (b) length of segment s and (c) force of friction F for which Vi = Vr.
4) It directly follows from the previous item 3 that in both cases (the linear case and the zigzag case) at the lower downward end/exit of the segment s the kinetic energy and the linear momentum of the blue component are one and same.
5) In the straightline case a portion of heat Q is generated. This portion of heat Q is big enough and can be easily detected and measured even by the most unprofessional measuring devices.
6) In the zigzag case a portion of heat q is generated. This portion of heat q is extremely small (practically equal to zero) and can be detected and measured with extremely great difficulty even by the most precise and sensitive measuring device.
7) It directly follows from the previous items 5 and 6 that Q > q as Q is much bigger q.
8) In one word, in both cases (the straightline case and the zigzag case) at the lower downward end/exit of the segment s the kinetic energy and the linear momentum of the blue component are one and same but in the straghtline case heat Q is generated and in the zigzag case heat q is generated as Q > q.
9) It directly follows from the previous item 8 that in this particular situation (ONLY!) the law of coservation of mechanical energy and/or the law of conservation of linear momentum is not correct. But there is nothing special, disturbing and tragic in this fact as any rule/law has its exceptions.
(NOTE. Besides it is evident that we can always choose a suitable combination of (a) number and shape of zigzags, (b) length of segment s and (c) force of friction F for which V' = V" and Vi = Vr. This is the ideal case.)
-------------------------------------------------
Now it seems to me that everything is already entirely clear. (This vertical variation of the basic concept is more understandable, isnt'it?)
Do you accept the validity of the above considerations?
Looking forward to your answer.
George

[George1]

Hi eccentrically1,
Our last post and the related steps 1, 2, 3 and 4 unambiguously show that (in this particular case only) the law of coservation of mechanical energy and/or the law of conservation of linear momentum are not correct.
DO YOU ACCEPT THIS SIMPLE AND OBVIOUS TRUTH?
Looking forward to your answer.
George1

[George1]

Hi everyone,
1) THEORY and PRACTICE! Two words! It is a SIMPLE OBVIOUS FACT that if a certain scientific THEORY is correct, then the related PRACTICE has to be also correct. And if you have any objections against this SIMPLE OBVIOUS FACT, then you have some mental problems for sure.
2) In overunity.com and in besslerwheel.com/forum we (our team) released ABSOLUTELY FREE two pieces of THEORETICAL research, whose titles are " IS THIS A REACTIONLESS DRIVE OR A PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINE?" and "A SIMPLE ELECTRIC HEATER, WHICH HAS EFFICIENCY GREATER THAN 1", respectively. For these two pieces of scientific THEORETICAL research is valid the statement in the previous item 1.
3) These two pieces of scientific THEORETICAL research (mentioned in the above item 2) unambiguously show (no serious and reasonable THEORETICAL objections within a period of two years in overunity.com and in besslerwheel.com/forum) that the law of conservation of energy and the law of coservation of linear momentum are not always correct. But there is nothing special, tragic and disturbing in this fact as any rule/law has its exceptions.
4) Our third piece of technology is a new electric technology which increases many times (at least twice as a minimum) the distance traveled by any standard electric vehicle on a single charge.
5) Our new electric technology has both THEORY and PRACTICE. In other words, we have a WORKING PROTOTYPE which perfectly confirms the correctness of the theoretical concept on which is based the principle of operation of our new electric technology. The latter is practically ready for production on a large industrial scale.
6) The secret of our new electric technology however is NOT FREE. It costs already 40,000,000 (forty) million dollars and this price will further rise if our first two pieces of THEORETICAL research (mentioned in the above item 2) do not win public recognition in the nearest future.
7) These 40,000,000 (forty) million dollars will be used mainly for charity and only a small part of this money will be used for some R&D work.
8) We (our team) are looking for buyers of the secret of our new electric technology (and of our next 7 (seven) inventions and technology innovations).
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George1